Episode 15
· 58:37
And then a bottle of wine came my way from a guest, and he said to take this home and drink this. So I took it home and drank it, and I said, oh, here we go. I need to know why this tastes the way this tastes. And that was the slippery slope that landed me where I am now. Wow.
Faye MacLachlan:Was a bottle of Chateau Bouques de Blanc, and it was just unlike a wine I'd ever had in my life and just brought that curiosity out. Texture, experience, complexity. Like, it was one of those, this is what we enjoy in a wine.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Hey, everyone. Welcome to Tasting Notes Toronto. I'm Alex Abbott Boyd. In this episode, I sit down with Faye MacLachlan, wine director and restaurant general manager at Langdon Hall. At Langdon Hall, Fay curates a list with over 1,900 wines.
Alex Abbott Boyd:And in 2025, she was named by the Michelin Guide as the Toronto Area Sommelier of the Year. Faye is deeply passionate about wine and hospitality. And over the past nineteen years, she's built one of the most ambitious wine programs in the country, proving that you don't need to be in Downtown Toronto to operate at a world class level. If you're curious what it takes to run a list of this caliber, this episode is for you. Here's my conversation with Faye MacLachlan.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Faye, thank you so much for being here.
Faye MacLachlan:Thank you for having me.
Alex Abbott Boyd:To kick things off, could you share just a little bit about who you are, what you do, and how you found your way into wine and hospitality?
Faye MacLachlan:For sure. My name is Faye MacLachlan. My current role here is wine director and restaurant general manager. And I come to that by a very convoluted path. I've been here at Langdon Hall for nineteen years, but I've done a lot
Alex Abbott Boyd:of
Faye MacLachlan:different hospitality jobs all through my from 18. The minute I can serve in a restaurant, I started serving in a restaurant and have worked anywhere from greasy spoons to Five Diamond.
Alex Abbott Boyd:And what was it that that got you working in the industry at the very beginning? Was it just looking for, say, a summer job when you're a teenager?
Faye MacLachlan:Or Yeah. I was looking for a job that one you could work part time and go to school and pay for school. Yeah. So that was quite honestly the big draw and something that fit into studying because the nights and weekends are what you have available. The problem is if you are if you have a hospitality soul, you don't wanna leave when you're done school.
Faye MacLachlan:You're like, that was fun, and I've got my degree. But I like what I do. I'm really interested, and I'm done this for by the time I finished the university, I've been serving for six years. And I thought, I like this. I don't wanna stop what I'm doing.
Faye MacLachlan:So I never really used my degree in any formal capacity, and I just stayed with hospitality and then started to think of this as a career path.
Alex Abbott Boyd:When you were in school, what was one or two of the places that you were working that did make you feel like, wow. I don't actually wanna leave.
Faye MacLachlan:There's a I worked in a few my first serving job was actually Pizza Hut buffet, lunch buffet, which did nothing to make me wanna stay hospitality. And then I ended up working up working at some really great, honestly, mom and pop shops, bars and grills and that sort of thing. I like the mom and pop shops because you're working with the owners, and you're seeing them working the trenches with you, seeing their drive, seeing their passion, no matter at what level their operation was, trying to push this business. And the success is resting on every single person in that building doing their job. That's what I loved about it, the team and the and the ownership being part of the experience.
Faye MacLachlan:So that has always been something that I've looked for in my jobs moving forward. I don't wanna work for corporation. I wanna work with and for people.
Alex Abbott Boyd:In the trenches, part of a team.
Faye MacLachlan:Exactly. Like, I worked at this this little bar, and the owner was the bartender. And she was there every day opening that place with a smile on her face. She'd go home for two hours. She'd come back.
Faye MacLachlan:She'd close that place. And I don't advocate putting your life to that level, but she loved that. She was so invested in that property, and she knew every guest. And that's the spirit of hospitality to me.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. It's beautiful. It feels like there was some in a community almost
Faye MacLachlan:Exactly. Bar.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. And so what was your degree in that you were not pulled towards?
Faye MacLachlan:Geology Okay. And geography Okay. Which translates beautifully to wine. So it would the intent was to become a teacher. But instead of going to teacher's college, I went into full time hospitality instead.
Alex Abbott Boyd:And when I guess, with that geology connection, like, when did wine start to enter the picture for you? Was you started out as a server. Was I imagine there might have been some wine involved there, but when did it become more of a focus for you and
Faye MacLachlan:a passion? What happened? It actually I was always more into interested in cocktails in my early twenties because you work in bars, and that's when I was in the kind of growing up in it. The bartender was the job you wanted. That was when you I really I was a server.
Faye MacLachlan:I was a host. I was a server. I'm working my way to be the bartender. Right? And so you had to know how to mix drinks, you had to know how to create cocktails.
Faye MacLachlan:And then a bottle of wine came my way from a guest, and he said to take this home and drink this. And so I took it home and drank it, and I said, oh, here we go. I need to know why this tastes the way this tastes. And that was the slippery slope that landed me where I am now. Wow.
Alex Abbott Boyd:What what was the bottle of wine?
Faye MacLachlan:It was a bottle of Chateau Bouques d'Aublok.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Okay.
Faye MacLachlan:And it was just, like, unlike a wine I'd ever had in my life and just brought that curiosity out.
Alex Abbott Boyd:What was it about it? Was it is it the taste profile was so different?
Faye MacLachlan:Taste, texture, experience, complexity. Like, it was one of those, this is what people want. This is what we enjoy in a wine. This is
Alex Abbott Boyd:like Yeah.
Faye MacLachlan:I would drink wine and I would serve wine and that's fine. But to have that, oh, wine doesn't taste like this. What is giving it? Why don't why am I having all these sensations? That was an
Alex Abbott Boyd:Okay. Yeah. Why do you think the guest gave you that bottle of wine?
Faye MacLachlan:I because he is a huge wine collector, and he's all it was one of those, I think you should try this. He has done that with a few other people. So I think he's really, he's an enabler. Okay. I very much appreciate that.
Faye MacLachlan:Okay.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. So with the curiosity sparked, what was next? How did you go about learning about wine?
Faye MacLachlan:Online. I was in there. The next week, I had signed myself up for International Somalia Guild at the time. I was offering courses in Toronto. I was enrolled and working my way through my certification within I think it started two months after that bottle.
Faye MacLachlan:Yeah. That was I found a direction.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Okay. Yeah. And how did you find studying in that program?
Faye MacLachlan:I really like the program. I and I find that as a a certification body, I don't think they offer courses, quite honestly, anymore. One of the things I really like about what they do is I had a great teacher, but they also have such a service component to it. And that's I find so important is to not just great that you know about the wine Yeah. Great that you can talk about it, but to actually do the full service of it and to have the table presence.
Faye MacLachlan:They really drilled that in. And I've done the WSET, which is a completely different program, But I really like the focus on service is that was one of the three things that you were tested on. And if you didn't pass that, that you weren't capable of being a flor sommelier.
Alex Abbott Boyd:That ties in perfectly to what was drawing you into hospitality, which was being on the floor and interacting with people.
Faye MacLachlan:Exactly. We don't get in this in this industry because we're shy.
Alex Abbott Boyd:So you've got this wine bug. You're you've been studying with the International Smile Guild. How did you find your way to where we are, Langdon Hall? Was there were there any other early formative restaurant experiences that we should touch on first?
Faye MacLachlan:Of it was here, quite honestly. And when I came here, the wine director was Katie Moore. And I will say that she was very influential, informative in my early process. While I was studying, she would take me to Tastings, took me under her wing. K.
Faye MacLachlan:We're gonna go down here. You're gonna taste that. We would go to Wineries Niagara, but also the big tastings. Oh. And to have somebody kinda shepherd you through that is a gift that I don't think a lot of psalms get, and I appreciate it immensely.
Faye MacLachlan:To have somebody to ask those questions you were afraid to put your hand up in class to ask is super helpful. Yeah. And somebody is your cheerleader. Right? Like, how are you doing?
Faye MacLachlan:You tasted this. Surprising you with a what do you think about this wine? To have that somebody to bounce it back and forth and somebody to keep you in the guardrails and keep your learning path very organized is very
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. And I think you you had mentioned to me that you actually joined the team here as a bartender. I did. And so yeah. And yet she was still showing you the ropes and wine.
Faye MacLachlan:Exactly. The bar and the and the sawn team work very tightly here and always have because we're we're two parts of the same team. Beverages is a huge component here. So she and she was always very encouraging. She had her saw on team, but I want your bartender to have the wine curiosity.
Faye MacLachlan:Right? So it's a little bit business oriented, but a lot more personal growth for everybody around you too.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. Oh, a 100%. Maybe just for anyone listening who's just not a 100% familiar, could you maybe share just a little bit about Langdon Hall, about about the property, about the restaurant, about the wine program, and who the guests are and what they're coming here for.
Faye MacLachlan:Absolutely. So first of all, we are an estate property just outside of Cambridge. We are a hotel, sixty sixty guest rooms, and we also have several different outlets for dining. In the Bain House of Langdon, we have our formal dining room, which seats around a 100, a 110. And then we also have a more casual dining experience in Wilkes Barre.
Faye MacLachlan:In terms of the wine program, we service, of course, both the bar and the dining room. We also have a retail bottle shop attached, so we ventured into that as well. And what you don't see, but is a incredibly huge part of our wine program, is our events. We have at minimum 70 weddings a year. Wow.
Faye MacLachlan:A lot of corporate retreats. So there's we have a lot of clientele coming from different directions and different angles and needing different things, but they all need wine. Yeah. That's the important thing. So our a la carte guests tend to be mostly from the Toronto area, quite honestly.
Faye MacLachlan:It's a weekend getaway. And when you come to Langdon Hall, you don't tend to venture out from the property. This is a place to come relax. You go to the spa, in the summer, go to the pool. There's lots of things to do within the estate itself.
Faye MacLachlan:So it's more of a a getaway where you park your car and don't see it until you you're ready to go home, and it's a beautiful relaxing experience. Corporate groups, a little bit different. They come. They have all their meetings here. There are dinners and such throughout the week.
Faye MacLachlan:We do a lot of corporate events. Weddings, whole different area, a whole different experience. So it's a juggling of all of that. And then our bar area tends to be more look drop in dining. And
Alex Abbott Boyd:when you joined the team here, what was it that just made this place click for you as somewhere that you might wanna be long term? Because you said you've been here nineteen years.
Faye MacLachlan:Yes. Yeah. How do I say this? The owners are here. The owners know our names.
Faye MacLachlan:The owners are interacting with us. We are all still we've grown. Even in the nineteen years, we've grown immensely. But it still has the care and the feel I don't like to say family when you're talking about a workplace because we're not family, but we are definitely a very close knit team from all else.
Alex Abbott Boyd:And is it common that people have been here for extended periods of time? Because I had Jeremiah Thomas on the podcast, and he mentioned when he joined, so many of the somms and servers were veterans.
Faye MacLachlan:Yes. Yeah. Now I will say that COVID did some clearing of of the house as it did with every hospitality place in in the world, I'm assuming. But we still have a lot of long term employees. There's people that work on our sales team that I think one of them has the second pension number that has ever existed at length of call.
Faye MacLachlan:Wow. They there's a lot of very long term employees here. No. I'm one of the older, but I'm definitely not the oldest here.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. Well, it's a strong testament to the culture they've created here.
Faye MacLachlan:Also, at the end of the day, where can you work with a world class wine list like this and not have to live in Toronto to do it? This is one of the options. So there's a lifestyle of living a out out of the Toronto area, which is lovely as well.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yep. I guess you mentioned that wine list. Could you share just a little bit more about your wine program? I'd be curious how many bottles do you have. And then you broke out into the different kind of groups, whether it's a la carte people, weddings, corporate.
Alex Abbott Boyd:I'd just be fascinated to know what kind of wine that each category is needing.
Faye MacLachlan:Yeah. So it's really interesting. We have a few different wine lists on the go. Of course, we have our full large wine list that's available in the dining room and the bar area. And if you're staying here, of course, that's you have access to that.
Faye MacLachlan:And that tends to have we I think we have about 1,900 labels on that. Remember from the last count where we are landing in bottles, it's all an alarm. It's a bit off of it. We have two sellers here to house all of our inventory. Our events list is a completely separate list.
Faye MacLachlan:You can have a little bit of crossover. The problem with running a events list is consistency and supply. So you have to have it aligned that you can guarantee for a wedding in three months, they will have their product. So it's a little bit of a different philosophy on structure, consistency. And then when you're hosting a wedding for a 100 people, you're not looking for that really unique aw and wine.
Faye MacLachlan:No. You want something that aunt Mabel and something that, you know, your teenage best friend can all enjoy. So you're looking for classic expressions of the very the best known grapes. I hate to use the word crowd pleasing, but that's where you're landing there.
Alex Abbott Boyd:What are some of them? And, also, has that changed recently? Like, for instance, has bringing in a Niagara wine into that wedding list become more acceptable in the last few years?
Faye MacLachlan:Always. I always have Niagara options. I I think that if you're running a wine list in Ontario Mhmm. You absolutely need to have that. So the Ontario features heavily in all our lists.
Faye MacLachlan:I will say that changes come from the guests. I've actually groups that have never wanted to have Canadian wine before are now looking for Canadian wine, which is I love it. I'm so happy about it. But that's been a change in the last year or so. But so I try to have a range.
Faye MacLachlan:When I took over the program, there was a cap of I think our most expensive option on me at a group list was around 80. It's now up to about $200. I just I want to have a wine on that list or whatever your budget is, whatever your occasion is. Of course, there's the Pinot Grigios. There's the Sauvignon Blancs.
Faye MacLachlan:But I always like to have a few that are a little bit more adventurous because I meet with brides and grooms, and I talk about the wines, and they taste the wine. So sometimes we can find something that is, oh, you like crisp and fresh. This is also crisp and fresh. Why don't you try that? So there's some some fingerprints on that.
Faye MacLachlan:But at the end of the day, what I think you should have is not important. It's what you want. Never met.
Alex Abbott Boyd:That makes sense. And is it a different list for the corporate events?
Faye MacLachlan:Yes. There is a completely different list. It I wanna say it's about 70 selections on it, including sparkling wine. And that varies a little bit and ranges anywhere from $55 per bottle to about 200.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Are there any wines that are just essential for you that No. What in any part of the wine program that you just know people are gonna be wanting and you're gonna have to have it? Obviously, Pinot Grigio on the wedding list. But
Faye MacLachlan:Yes. Yeah. Yes. You have to have your staples. Right?
Faye MacLachlan:I do have a Pinot Grigio available by the Glaxal Wits. Yeah. Am I printing it on the menu? Probably not. But it's like the Caesar salad.
Faye MacLachlan:You can probably have it. But in terms of staples, I would say staples are more of a by the glass. And I you have to have you have to have a mix of classics and interesting in your by the glass. Right? So you're gonna have a Cabernet on there.
Faye MacLachlan:You're gonna have a Pinot Noir on there, but you might throw something else in. If you're feeling a little adventurous, this will have the flavor profile. Try that. Yeah. So it's really there's not one specific style, but it's just you have to it's almost like painting.
Faye MacLachlan:Right? You need enough of a color palette to be able to fill in for all your guests. Because we have champagne on, of course, by the glass, but we are we sell a lot of champagne by the bottle as well.
Alex Abbott Boyd:And that's amazing. Is it mostly the big brands? Is there a grower champagne? Is it a mix?
Faye MacLachlan:Grow it's a mix. I find the by the glass, you need to stick with a a well known label. I tried to go grower for a little bit, and my sales dropped, which is fine. But what I do is I always have a champagne on one of our tasting menu pairings, and that can be a grower one, and that we also offer by the glass. So we can say, you can have your marquee or you have this other option over here.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Any similes do you oversee here?
Faye MacLachlan:I won't count the ones that only perk from others. So but I've got one, two, three, four, five full time. I am also, like, counting the the songs that work at the retail shop. And then four part time.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Okay. And what do you look for when you're hiring for those roles?
Faye MacLachlan:I need somebody with some experience. And it's tough to bring somebody in at this level that hasn't worked a floor before. It's a steep learning curve to jump into find nothing serviced and be 1st Floor. But I'm looking for, obviously, enthusiasm, knowledge, deep service background. And also, I find I'm looking for somebody who hasn't just certified.
Faye MacLachlan:And I don't mean, like, yesterday certified. Like, I have a SOM now, and that's all I've ever done since then. Somebody I want I like to see. And then I did this. And then, like, I've added these little extra courses because that to me says there's a lifelong long curiosity.
Faye MacLachlan:And if you don't have that as a sommelier, you're gonna be that somm who's still selling wines that are, like have gone out of style ten years ago. You need to be constantly curious and looking and researching and finding it.
Alex Abbott Boyd:That actually makes a lot of sense.
Faye MacLachlan:Yeah. It's the same when I'm hiring for servers. I like to see extracurriculars. I like to see that enthusiasm and that drive in some form. And in Psalms, I look for it in the, did you take a weird grapes of Portugal course?
Faye MacLachlan:Great. Because that tells me you you deep dove into something, and I can probably assume you did that areas too.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Is it ever a challenge hiring in this location if people are used to, say, living in Toronto, or at least that's maybe where they got their initial som experiences?
Faye MacLachlan:Yeah. I find it's a real it's tough to find any sort of hospitality staff soms. You'll go through a stage as a where, okay. I found some. We're great.
Faye MacLachlan:And I find that once they come here, they stay. But if you have to replace one, it's a tough time to replace.
Alex Abbott Boyd:You mentioned earlier, though, that part of what's kept you here so long is you get the lifestyle of living out Of Toronto and get to work with a world class wine list. Could you maybe speak to that a little bit more? Why do you like being not in a big city? What are some of the advantages? What are some of the disadvantages?
Faye MacLachlan:I find I don't know if you've ever been to Cambridge. There's not a lot of dining around here. If you are a foodie, you do have to travel a fair bit. The your options for just going out, there's no little wine bar around the corner. Right?
Faye MacLachlan:They you have to be interested in the other parts of the lifestyle of living out here rather than just we don't have so much of a dining seat. Waterloo is a little bit better. This side isn't as good.
Alex Abbott Boyd:For you, what are the positives that
Faye MacLachlan:I I'm a country girl. That's I always have been enjoying the outdoors and that sort of thing. I like to cook, so I will cook and drink wine. So Okay. The dining out is a little less of a important It's much more family oriented.
Faye MacLachlan:It's easier to afford to live out here. So that part of it is attractive. I spend a lot of time outside with my dogs. Yeah. What it suits my personal life.
Faye MacLachlan:I find the songs that we do end up with are over a certain age. They're looking for the same thing. They're looking for a little bit calmer, a little bit more space, and so that's usually the employee that gravitates the slit.
Alex Abbott Boyd:That makes sense. Yeah. If you can get your housing costs down, it increases a wine your wine budget too.
Faye MacLachlan:Exactly. Don't have to
Alex Abbott Boyd:So I saw that in 2025, the Michelin Guide awarded you as the this Toronto area song of the year.
Faye MacLachlan:I know. It was crazy.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Was that something that was on your radar? Did it come as a total surprise?
Faye MacLachlan:So I got an email inviting me to the seraphine, but I thought it was for chef. I thought it was for the restaurant GM part of my job, so I thought and surprisingly, I couldn't go. I was actually No. I committed to go. I was in a doing Malbec camp in Argentina,
Alex Abbott Boyd:which is
Faye MacLachlan:a worthwhile reason to miss that. And I had already precommitted to that. And they had just sent that out maybe two weeks before the ceremony. So I thought, sorry. Can't go.
Faye MacLachlan:And then I got another email the week before. I was like, can you answer a few questions? And I was like, this doesn't. These questions aren't restaurant oriented. They're wine oriented.
Faye MacLachlan:So I was thought, that's interesting. So I was a little bit I wonder if that's happening. I don't know, but it was definitely a big shock.
Alex Abbott Boyd:What did that mean to you to win? I guess it must have been tough if you're off in Argentina.
Faye MacLachlan:Of all the times. Right? It was incredible. Yeah. Honestly, I'm not somebody that likes to switch for the limelight, so to speak.
Faye MacLachlan:I don't have a lot of ego in a song in my song world. I don't think it really fits well for a song. I don't wanna be the show. I want to facilitate your show. That's my whole philosophy behind behind serving Anne's song is I'm here to make your experience.
Faye MacLachlan:I'm not here to entertain and to to interject myself and my opinions. But it was just it was a kind of a it was wonderful to get recognized for doing something I love, really, and I'm so passionate about and spend so much time thinking about and studying. So to get the recognition unexpectedly was just I was over the mood about it.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Congratulations again.
Faye MacLachlan:Yeah. Thank you.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. Do you think there's, like, a couple factors of your wine program and your approach that maybe helped you stand out and would have caught their attention?
Faye MacLachlan:I think the depth of our wine program, definitely. And that would be as much as I'd like to take credit for it. That is thanks to the owners putting the investment in and being willing to tie up that much capital into a serious wine program. So to be able to be allowed to manage that is incredible. I think that obviously is a huge consideration.
Faye MacLachlan:The one thing I might toot my hold on a little bit is our tasting menus and our wine pairings. That is hands down my favorite thing to do. Hands down the thing I spend the most time thinking about and considering and tasting and talking to chef about. So I feel like the wine pairings that we offer, I think, take an already great experience that chef has created and really just take them to the next level. And I think that was a big consideration as well.
Faye MacLachlan:I hope it is because put a lot of effort into it.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. Could you share a little bit I'd love to hear more about that. So could you share a bit about the cuisine that chef is producing, how often the menu changes?
Faye MacLachlan:In terms of our cuisine, I find that chef is very, very classically French, but with hyper local ingredients. And he's never one to overwhelm with heavy flavors. He's so layered and nuanced in his flare flavors. There'll be a little surprise pop of flavor here and then over here. It's it is truly a journey on a plate, and it's one of the things that, like, that makes him such a great chef.
Faye MacLachlan:In in my opinion, I think in a lot of people's opinion is it is literally this complexity, intensity, and layers of that he creates is what is wonderful. And so that's what I take out of that. And when I'm looking for a wine, I'm looking for a wine that has the nuance and the complexity to match. And I don't want to take his finesse and hit it with something that's too powerful. I want finesse to match finesse.
Faye MacLachlan:So I'm always on the hunt for wines that that suit the soul of his cooking.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Okay. And how many courses and how many wines are in a typical pairing dinner?
Faye MacLachlan:We have two on the go right now. And so our discovery is a selection of our a la carte only done in a tasting menu format, which is great. Because when you come in and you say, well, I would like this and this. But should I No. You can do it.
Faye MacLachlan:No. You can have this lovely selection. And so there's six wines in that. And then we do our grand tasting menu, and that is depending on how you count the six, there's about 11 courses, and there's seven no. Eight wines in that pairing.
Faye MacLachlan:So it's a journey, definitely, but a wonderful journey.
Alex Abbott Boyd:What are some of the recent pairings that you've done that you just absolutely loved?
Faye MacLachlan:I just switched our great tasting menu. There's oh, let me think. It's probably I'm doing a Benjamin Bridge brute with our snacks, a little fresh garden citrus snacks, a little bit of seafood, like, just nice little, very acidic, fresh style of sparkling. I've got a Patagonian rose and pinot noir base going with the a sort of a slightly smoked juniper and fish dish. I'm looking for those same flavors to pop other flavors,
Alex Abbott Boyd:if that
Faye MacLachlan:makes sense.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. Does were there any dishes that were really hard to find a pairing, and then you found one, and it was just like an moment?
Faye MacLachlan:Oh, yeah. And what I struggle with the most is desserts. Only because there's not as many whisper wines in the world that we have access to that you can pair well with. So it's a really, especially if they say next week, we're gonna switch to this. And I'm like, well, but I don't have anything to sell her to go with that.
Faye MacLachlan:Or we're running around and trying to find something that'll work. So that and that's more of a struggle when you're like, I know that there's a line out there that would work, but how do I get my hands on it? That is the question. So you're sometimes you're constrained with the supply more. Yeah.
Alex Abbott Boyd:So, obviously, we have a lot of ice wine. Tokai and southerns are fairly available. Hort would be avail like, what do you wish that you had access to that that
Faye MacLachlan:you don't? And it's sometimes it's just me being I want my philosophy on a tasting menu is quite often I want you to have an experience that you would never run into yourself. We've all had sauteur, and we've all had pork. So I'm looking for something that's hope I didn't even know this. Oh, I like that.
Faye MacLachlan:Oh, excuse A surprise. And it's Yeah. I always want to find an unusual but good pair.
Alex Abbott Boyd:What about sweet Riesling?
Faye MacLachlan:Absolutely. Yeah. But then what if chef has already thrown in a foie gras for you? Right? It's also considering the how you work through the tasting menu, where that that wine lands.
Faye MacLachlan:Right? Because it has to be a progression as well. Right? You it doesn't one caring doesn't exist alone. It exists in a flow.
Alex Abbott Boyd:That makes sense. Could you share your favorite pairing you've done? Is there a favorite pairing of all time?
Faye MacLachlan:It wasn't. It was completely by accident. And it was a chef had done this. It was almost like a feta, like a goat cheese, a hard goat cheese. And it was marinated in a tomato consomme almost, but marinated for a very long time.
Faye MacLachlan:So it's super acidic, super tart, but where it was in the structure or in the flow of the tasting menu, it called for a red wine. Right? So I was like, what am I gonna do here? This is not my winner. I ended up doing a Chianti Classico, and it Beautiful.
Faye MacLachlan:But it was one of those my first inclination would be wait. Luckily, chef is very good at adjusting. If I say, you know what? For the flow of a tasting menu, it would be better if I could put this dish up here because the the way the wines are and he he's so easy to work with. I'm very blessed on that.
Faye MacLachlan:But just the way that venue went, we couldn't change it. And so it was a very happy accident that I landed on that. And that was one of it was for people's choice pairing for sure.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Okay. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. I would never have thought to put a chianti with that dish.
Faye MacLachlan:But Exactly. But it makes sense. That tart fresh Sangiovese in there. Yep. Works.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Awesome. Maybe we were just maybe we were just touching on this. You can tell me, but I'd love to know what you love most about your job here.
Faye MacLachlan:Ah, lots of things, but no two days are the same. And that's I think everybody in hospitality has a little bit of the we need we need a lot of things coming at us from all angles. Right? Because that's how we developed. Right?
Faye MacLachlan:We are always putting out fires or we're we're three steps behind constantly so that that feel of if we came in and did the same thing and every day, we'd all be bored. So to come in and today, we're actually gonna do it. We're gonna have a pool park down there, and we're gonna have we've had synchronized swimmers down there. Right? So all of a sudden, that's what I'm doing today.
Faye MacLachlan:Or Yeah. Night, we're doing a game dinner in the private dining room with wine pairings, and it's a completely different experience there. Tomorrow, we might be doing a a lunch in the orchard room where they don't wanna do wine pairings, but they want wine stations. Everything's so different at all times, but you still have to provide the hospitality and the level of service. So I really I enjoy that a lot.
Alex Abbott Boyd:So, like, constant, I guess, learning stimulation, growth.
Faye MacLachlan:Yeah. And one of the best things about this job is I get to create some of those events. So they can be some of my ideas. Right? So I get to to plan and execute and go, did that work great?
Faye MacLachlan:Should we tweak it? Should we should we scrap it for them? So that's one of the reasons this place is so wonderful is that they allow us to run with things like that.
Alex Abbott Boyd:I thought it's just I'm reminded of what you said when you're looking for a psalm as as someone who has not just got a certification and then got comfortable? Because it sounds like a slight amount of discomfort, you could say, or excitement is just a part of this.
Faye MacLachlan:We never do our best services, but I think everybody can agree where you make your mistakes is when it's an easy night. It's when you're running on top and you're, like, you're you've got all cylinders firing and you're on it. That's when you're riding that service way wave. Whereas if you're Yeah. You're not performing your ballet like you should.
Faye MacLachlan:And that's why I think the constant stimulation, the curiosity is important. Yeah.
Alex Abbott Boyd:For sure. I guess you mentioned earlier that you went to Malbec Camp. I I always love some of my best travel experiences have been traveling for wine or wine was a key part of it. I'd love to hear about that experience or how important you think it is for psalms to actually travel to wine regions and
Faye MacLachlan:It's not a disqualifier for a good psalm. There are people that don't have the opportunity. So I don't wanna come across as a If you can travel, you're not a song. Because you are, but you lack the context if you can't place it in within your experiences. So if you can do it, it is so important to do.
Faye MacLachlan:And if you come home with a completely different understanding, like, before I went to Argentina, I knew that they used run for the water. I had no idea how important it was and how that was like, how they even managed those that water system there. So all of a sudden, it went from, like, a footnote in the textbook that I read to, no. That's that is crucial to that Rhine region. Even those little nuggets give you such a broader understanding.
Faye MacLachlan:And what you read in a textbook, and then you'll go there and it's, oh, but maybe not. Okay. There is some discrepancy in my experience is this. Right? So now I have this point of view on top of it.
Faye MacLachlan:And just to be it's the storytelling too. If I said if I came to your table and was like, I was at the winery and I met the winemaker, and they named it after their kid or they it's this young couple that's just starting out, and they're super passionate. It's I've experienced it, and I'm sharing my joy of that experience at the table. The storytelling is very important, a part of the travel experience too.
Alex Abbott Boyd:What have been some of your favorite trips?
Faye MacLachlan:A lot. I did a great trip to Aetna. Opened my eyes to the Contrada system, and and you'd read about it a little bit, but then you get there and you're like, oh, I see it. I see it. Okay.
Faye MacLachlan:When you spend a little bit time hiking on that that on Etna, and then you feel that sun and you see the volcano. And and so that was an incredible trip. And just how they're pushing their region forward was great.
Alex Abbott Boyd:So I sorry. I have two questions on Etna. One, I love the wines, and I would love to go there. But I also know that volcano erupts, like, 200 times a year. Is it scary being in Aetna?
Faye MacLachlan:I don't know. It was it's it didn't bother me that much. It's an interesting, like, people I guess people that just live on the sidewalk volcano, they just that's the way it is. Because we were sitting out on this tasting patio at this estate, and the mountain was actually rumbling while we're there. And she's spewing in smoke.
Faye MacLachlan:And the lady who's leading the tasting said, mama, you're talking today. And I loved it. I just loved it. So they're that's just their experience. Right?
Faye MacLachlan:A little bit of the, like, the worrywart part of you going, you're sleeping on a volcano.
Alex Abbott Boyd:There you go.
Faye MacLachlan:It's your comfort. I would highly recommend it. Feel like that nonactive ones are the ones you need to worry about.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. Mount Saint Helens. But Yeah. So on the Contrada system and I think this maybe this will show the benefits of travel because I haven't been there. I have tasted with a ton of Aetna producers.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. And they show me how many little subregions there are. And I would just look at it, and I'd just be like, you're already a niche wine. Maybe my thoughts as someone who hasn't been there is do the North side, the East side, and the South side of the volcano because there's obviously a hugely different aspect. Keep it simple for the consumer.
Alex Abbott Boyd:But then I hadn't been there, I'd love to know, like, how what is it actually like when you're there as you're like, oh, these 40 regions within the volcano are actually totally different.
Faye MacLachlan:It is so complex from any angle that you think of. But I think the real key to that is just the soil diversity. You can't say that north is north and south is south because, you just said, it erupts so much. There's fresh there's fresh ground. So you have this huge intricacy of soil types that will give such a different flavor even if they were all on the same angle facing the same with the same manoatic.
Faye MacLachlan:They're probably overcomplicating it out of the start. But I feel to me that makes more sense than saying, you know what? We'll build up the region more after the fact is, no. We believe that this is different, and we're selling it as a very complex and unique and fragmented region because we believe in it. I feel like consumers would probably jump on that more than saying, north, south, east, west.
Faye MacLachlan:And, you know what, ten years from now, you're gonna have to learn about this and this too.
Alex Abbott Boyd:That that makes a lot of
Faye MacLachlan:sense. And I think it it is absolutely deserving of the Thanks. Right? If you were saying, like, half of this and half of that, and I can't taste the difference. But if I can see visually and taste the difference, you won my heart on that one for sure.
Faye MacLachlan:Yeah.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Last question on Aetna. The other thing that I has held me back from adding one to my portfolio is as it gets more specific into all these different contradas, I don't remember exactly, but I would be having to bring in wines and sell them for $70.80 dollars. And I just wondered, is that a are people willing to pay that for Aetna Rosso now? I mean
Faye MacLachlan:I'm finding so. I think that at the day of the qualities in the bottle, I'm not saying that you're probably coming off the street and going, oh, where's the Aetna section in here?
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah.
Faye MacLachlan:But if you have then, yes, that you have a relationship with and they like a style of wine and the quality I know is in the bottle, I absolutely will recommend. So you know what? Tonight is the day I think you should try this. And I always say to my guests that I do that. I say, if you don't like it, you tell me you don't like it.
Faye MacLachlan:We'll find you the bottle. And I get to take this bottle home with me. There's no pressure to this. We'll we can find another use for this. But and the bottle backs me up.
Faye MacLachlan:The bottle has the quality of it. And I'm always happy to do the hand sell of that. But on a retailer, on a portfolio, it's a bit maybe a bit tougher unless you have somebody to sell it. So I right now, it's a.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. Sure. So you just mentioned something really interesting, which was when you recommend a bottle, you derisk it for the guest. Yeah. That can potentially be an expensive thing to do for a place.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Do you think
Faye MacLachlan:how often I don't do that often than that.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Is it only certain guests?
Faye MacLachlan:I do that with people I have relationship with. Okay. I do that with people that that I know are curious. I do that with people that I know their palate and that I feel like I'm gonna knit. And I think probably out of the last 20 times I've done it, I don't think I've had a viable return.
Faye MacLachlan:I don't think that's how nobody said, yeah. This isn't for me for at least three years.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. I was gonna say it's like it's potentially an expensive way to go about it, but I feel like if you do have those relationships Yeah. It can actually just be a great way to be more hospitable, increase the hospitality.
Faye MacLachlan:Exactly. And also just on sharing that curiosity with you. Right? And you're like, they say we're on an adventure today, but we trust because the last five times, she's brought us a bottle that we really liked. We talked about it, she knows, and she yells.
Faye MacLachlan:Or and so if you've gotta build up that relationship, but once you have that relationship, you have a door open for a very curious, fun experience for your guests.
Alex Abbott Boyd:That's wonderful. Yeah. Back to to travel. We got sidetracked out. Know.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Were there any other places you've been that were especially meaningful and eye opening from a wine perspective?
Faye MacLachlan:They're all wonderful. First of all, I love wine travel, but there's regions where you're like, okay. I expected that, and this is great. I did Croatia a few years ago, which was an absolutely wonderful and eye opening trip. Definitely because it's you're going to a region that you don't have a lot of understanding of.
Faye MacLachlan:Right? Like, we had when I went, zero Croatian wine on our list. And it's also a wine region that's trying to catapult itself into the international market. Right? From being a country that can't sell their wine due to politics to now a country that's like, we're joining the the EU, we have these wine regions, and we have all of this wealth of grapes that you've never heard of.
Faye MacLachlan:And we have the right ingredients for a world class wine region. We're just a little bit behind on it, but we're catching up and come try out.
Alex Abbott Boyd:The trip you organized yourself, or was it part of
Faye MacLachlan:It was with a wine agency. And it was just not a ton of people on it. But just to to tour, and we went north to south all the way down and just ran into the ran into grapes I'd never heard of. I came back from that because my knowledge was so little with so much knowledge because of it. Whereas if you send me to Chianti Classico, which I've done it and was a great trip, I already had this much knowledge.
Faye MacLachlan:So I moved the needle, but I didn't take it from there to there. Yeah. So touring really oddball regions are really cool. I did a trip to Ferncia Corta. Same thing.
Faye MacLachlan:Like, I thought, am I gonna enjoy sparkling wine region for five days? Yes. I did. I absolutely did. It was incredible.
Faye MacLachlan:Okay.
Alex Abbott Boyd:What was it about Francia Corte?
Faye MacLachlan:So it was literally just experiencing that region, and we tasted three different wineries a day. And what are they doing here? What are they doing there? And just seeing the they're all small there. Right?
Faye MacLachlan:It's a very small wide region. So it was really just interesting to see Sprinkly Lime production and how they were doing it, and they took us through a museum and the the back history of how they develop. Super super fun. Okay. Geeky fun.
Alex Abbott Boyd:And do you now have more French cicorta and and Croatian wine on the list?
Faye MacLachlan:Well, I started when I started doing my trips, I developed a program called suitcase lines. So it's, hey. I brought this back. You gotta try it. I wanna share my love of what I ran into.
Faye MacLachlan:So these are the suitcase wines that I brought back that I wanna feature. So I'm Croatia has gone from zero to quite a few selections. French Quarter, we've added a few. So it's just it's fun to to bring the enthusiasm back.
Alex Abbott Boyd:You mentioned that you moved through a lot of champagne. Do you think that helps in your ability to then move French a quarter?
Faye MacLachlan:Oh, for sure. Yeah. Sparkling is yeah. We're a celebration destination. Right?
Faye MacLachlan:You're coming here on your birthday. You're coming here on your anniversary, and sparkling wine is your celebration wine. Right?
Alex Abbott Boyd:That's awesome. Now if I came here on an occasion like that, I might start with champagne. But then the next day, we're still celebrating. Let's try something. Yeah.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. How was your personal taste in wine of all?
Faye MacLachlan:I find that's a good question. I think everybody progresses in their early drinking from, like, those fruity sweeties, and then you get into the little more austere styles of wine. I don't like the old reds, and I can appreciate their style. It's just not a wine that I sit down with. And I like wine with its alcohol and extraction level a little more imbalanced.
Faye MacLachlan:I don't I always think about wine like a volume on a speaker. I don't want my music too loud. I don't want my wine too loud. I want again, right back to chef and the nuances and the layers. I want the complexity, but I don't want it screaming at full volume.
Faye MacLachlan:So I tend to lean to lighter reds, whites with less oak, higher acidity, a little bit cool climate. Then there'll be the oddball where I'm like, this is also amazing over here. And I'm I can appreciate wine that's made with intention and passion in all styles, I think. Yeah.
Alex Abbott Boyd:What would be maybe two or three of your favorite regions or styles?
Faye MacLachlan:Sucker for Bouvray. Okay. Yeah. I would I sweat dry on the drier side. But you know what?
Faye MacLachlan:You could talk me into it in an off dry immersion. Mhmm. But just I think it's such a versatile wine when you're just wanting a little glass. It works with food. You can have it on its own.
Faye MacLachlan:I think it's also an undersung region. Right?
Alex Abbott Boyd:Versus, say, seven years? Or is it like that as much?
Faye MacLachlan:Or is it
Alex Abbott Boyd:even more undersung? I don't know.
Faye MacLachlan:Indefinitely. I I think seven years also completely underrated. It's I find that Bourree is a wine that I can recommend a little more freely, whereas Sevigneur is a little, I need to know what you like. I wanna make sure that's a style of wine that you would enjoy.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. I guess it's even more it's almost like a some level of austere. Right?
Faye MacLachlan:Yeah. Yeah.
Alex Abbott Boyd:What would be your favorite red region or style or grape?
Faye MacLachlan:That's a good question. I tend to lean into the lights. So I have Pinot Noirs, burgundy, of course. I think we do amazing things with Pinot Noir here in Niagara. I'll drink Gamay until the cows come home, literally.
Faye MacLachlan:Beaujolais, Ontario. I think that's such a great everyday one. That's like I always said to people at lunch, I'm like, you should have a Beaujolais with this. I I drink a lot of Italian. I drink a lot of that, actually.
Faye MacLachlan:But any in the lighter, the red category, I'm all over the place. Do
Alex Abbott Boyd:you find that it's a trend with the the customers and guests here that they're also moving towards more white wine and lighter reds and away from those the bigger, bolder reds?
Faye MacLachlan:I do see, and it's tough because I find that we're also recommending things that work with chef's menu. So is it a self fulfilling prophecy? Maybe. But I think that the generation that was Napa cap and Spade Gold and Okie, they're not drinking as much wine as they used to, and they're getting older. And then the newer generation coming in is appreciating the a little bit lighter, lower alcohol, a little less extracted style.
Faye MacLachlan:So I think that's starting to shift that direction. But That's what I'm hearing more
Alex Abbott Boyd:and more too is that it's everything is getting lighter, lower alcohol, and white is just blowing up.
Faye MacLachlan:Too if that's part of the it used to be that we wanted to get our grapes ripe, and we wanted the big bold. And now we're our climate is changing to the point where that's the normal, and now we want we are trying to mitigate that and keep the alcohol level down and keep the keep the acidity in the wine. So now we're trying to combat the temperature rising by creating a fresher style of wine. Like, we could have those big jammy blockbusters all the time now. Whereas back in the day, that was the goal is the ripeness.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. We want what we can have.
Faye MacLachlan:Humans were never happy. Dark dark.
Alex Abbott Boyd:You also mentioned you you love Pinot Noir and Gamay from Ontario. Yeah. And then when we were talking about the event wine list, you mentioned you've always had Ontario wine, but in the last year, you've seen a really big uptick in that. I'm guessing a huge part of that is is Donald Trump and the trade war. How much I guess, how much you think is that, and how much you think that Ontario wine has just never been better and really in a in an amazing spot?
Faye MacLachlan:I think that's both statements are true, but I think Ontario wine has been really good for a long time, and we just haven't given it the chance. I back in the day when my parents were buying wine, it wasn't that good. But there's been so many changes and so much progress now. Even ten years ago, there was great Ontario wines, but people just had this almost hangover of now. I went on with that.
Faye MacLachlan:But, hopefully, this is a sea change. And whether we got it through Donald Trump or whether we got it through a few other paths, I'm sure there's a lot of things in the mix there. But if that's what it took to get recognition, I'm Yeah. Great. There's a silver lining to everything.
Faye MacLachlan:Right?
Alex Abbott Boyd:Do you think what we've passed the tipping point, meaning that if tomorrow we could bring in Californian wines again, do you think things would go back, or you think
Faye MacLachlan:I think people are surprised at the quality. If they haven't visited it in years, now they're, like, they're definitely a little more accepting. I think that the other regions have benefited more than Ontario. Regions that can produce a bigger red have definitely taken some market share. A habit is a habit.
Faye MacLachlan:If you've run into a wine that you like, there's habitual drinkers that want to save. And if you've lost them, they're hard to get back. So I'll be very interested to see how and when this all turns around and we get American wine back, there's always gonna be people who go back. I don't think it'll be a mass migration.
Alex Abbott Boyd:I'm conflicted. I love even though I don't wrap Ontario wine, I just love that people are giving it more love and the local support, but I launched my agency with Oregon Pinot.
Faye MacLachlan:Yeah.
Alex Abbott Boyd:I would love to be able to sell my Oregon Pinot.
Faye MacLachlan:No. I'm sorry.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Those producers send me emails about how they're out on the street protesting.
Faye MacLachlan:No. It's frustrating because we know we're hurting those people. Yeah. I think of all the winemakers and winery owners that I've met on my travels, and I think, you you're not the problem. I would love to support you still.
Faye MacLachlan:But and when the time comes, we'll all be back together. But I think that we could we're diversifying. Right? Which is probably a good thing.
Alex Abbott Boyd:How do you keep wine fun? And I bring that up because if it something you do all day is a job. And so it could so easily become, oh, this is a job and not something joyful and fun.
Faye MacLachlan:First of all, you gotta surround yourself with a good team. That helps. And just I don't like to be too serious about I like you like, yesterday in preshift, I was describing old Vines to my floor staff. And I'm like, I try to make the chats about it fun and interesting and not too what's the how I never wanna say it? You gotta keep the fun and the joy of the discovery into it.
Faye MacLachlan:Right? Don't get too much in your head. Think about what got you into it in the first place. Okay? I'll literally be like, if I taste with a supplier, I'll be baking notes and telling, how are gonna research this?
Faye MacLachlan:What do they even care? Oh, I forgot about that, Greg. Okay. That makes sense. There's still there's never gonna know everything.
Faye MacLachlan:So as long as you're a curious human, there is no room to get bored. Yeah.
Alex Abbott Boyd:That's one of my favorite things about wine is because I'm very curious, and I know I will never even know 10% of everything that I could learn.
Faye MacLachlan:And then somebody over there is gonna do that. And now you're gonna have to go down that rabbit hole to find that out.
Alex Abbott Boyd:A 100%.
Faye MacLachlan:Yeah. So it's kinda part driven from internal enthusiasm working with team, but then externally, there's no end to the knowledge. Yeah.
Alex Abbott Boyd:A younger somm who was, say, earlier in their career asked you what do you think are the most important things that they focus on, say, in their twenties and then maybe they're into their thirties, what advice would you have?
Faye MacLachlan:It's a good question. First of all, how make sure that you keep studying. Don't rest on your laurels. But one of the things I think is missing in so many, including the ISG courses, all of the glamour of of being a son is wonderful. The talking to guests, love it.
Faye MacLachlan:That's great. We all love that part of the job. But what we should all have a better understanding and a little bit more education in is the boring, horrible back end of it, the invoicing, the inventory, and the pricing structure and how to actually run a program. Right? That's the a floor song will never progress into a management role until they get an.
Faye MacLachlan:So master Excel, it's horrible. But if you have that mastered, that's great. And that helps you a lot. Like, what inventory systems are out there and know some of that. Unfortunately, there is some just plain old business part of it, and there's a lot of great songs that are missing that part.
Faye MacLachlan:And that, to me, will set you up for a career success.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Okay.
Faye MacLachlan:It's not glamorous, but, unfortunately, it's essential.
Alex Abbott Boyd:And would you even say then if it's not directly a part of your day to day in your first job, like, literally asking, can I get involved in this? Can you teach me this?
Faye MacLachlan:Yeah. Yeah. Finding somebody who is a little bit of a mentor would be super helpful. Even I got an email from a lady that I I taught a WSET course, and she's taking over a wide program. She's can you just look over this with me?
Faye MacLachlan:So I've got a call with her. Having somebody that you can even just reach out and touch point with and say, I don't understand this. Right? But I don't wanna ask my employer. Can you help me with that?
Faye MacLachlan:It is really useful. It's it's I think there's from when I started in, there's a lot more potential for finding mentors.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. Do you have any advice for that when you
Faye MacLachlan:say First of all, are you working in a restaurant that has a song? Because at the end of the day, I always tell the staff here and like, listen. We're geeky. We love to talk about wine. In fact, people we go home and people don't wanna hear about shit.
Faye MacLachlan:So the more you ask us, the more enthusiastic we're gonna get about what it is. There are a lot of people who love to talk about wine all the time. You just have to find that person at your work and talk to them. Or you know what? Find there's little wine bars.
Faye MacLachlan:Who's running that wine bar? They'll lay up to that bar and have a chat. Like, it learning happens in so many different ways, but those sort of informal chats give you more information that you could even understand. You know?
Alex Abbott Boyd:A 100%. Sometimes you don't even know what the question you should ask is. Right?
Faye MacLachlan:Exactly. But the conversation will go off in this path, and you're like, what I learned? And it's a give and take. Like, your I was hoping that if you run into somebody who can explain something really well and really simply, you've got somebody who is going to give you some really good information.
Alex Abbott Boyd:100. Is there anything else you'd like to add?
Faye MacLachlan:Think so. Think what would I add? Other than, like, in terms of a a career path, think I it's a great one. I I think that more people should consider hospitality than they do right now. I think we are improving, but I think a lot of people still in this country and maybe in North America don't consider this a career, which it is.
Faye MacLachlan:It absolutely is. And there's there are places that you can make it a career. And if you are interested, find those places.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Wonder I think we touched on this before we started, but it also feels a little bit like the industry is under assault. The government is telling people not to drink whether or not that's based on good science or not. People are drinking less. Younger generations aren't drinking as much as before. Wine is so expensive now.
Alex Abbott Boyd:You think even with all of those challenges, it's still a great career to get into.
Faye MacLachlan:And then I would counter that point with what's going on right now and that we're in the hospitality industry staring down a labor shortage, a huge one. With the internationals, and I'm not being political at all, the international student caps, that's where we got a lot of our hospitality workers. We are about to hit a hiring problem. It is a career that pays well. The hours are not particularly not normal.
Faye MacLachlan:They're not you're never gonna do a nine to five, but it's a career that's going to need a lot of people, and there's people to go into it. So I think there is a huge potential.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Thank you so much for your time.
Faye MacLachlan:Yeah. Thank you very much.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Thank you so much for listening. If you've been enjoying these episodes, please give us a quick rating or review on Apple and Spotify. It will only take a few seconds, and, honestly, it helps a lot more than you think. Until next time. Cheers.
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