Episode 11
· 01:23:24
We've chosen to only work three days just so that everyone has the amount of time that they can with their families, but also the energy to come back to work and combat it full force and just to be able to do it properly with a mind that's not shrouded or tired. I think it's really important to have employers like that that can do that balance and also recognize that, yeah, it's expensive to live, but it's also very healthy to have a balance too because it's it was never like this, and it's just getting better. Hey, everyone.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Welcome to Tasting Notes Toronto. I'm Alex Abbott Boyd. In this episode, I sit down with Jeremiah Thomas, general manager and beverage director at The Pine, a Michelin Shard restaurant in Creemoor, Ontario. Jeremiah has seen it all. From starting in the kitchen at Soho House when he was still in high school, Jeremiah has worked as a cook, a bartender, a barista, a server, and, of course, now a general manager.
Alex Abbott Boyd:He's worked at Langdon Hall, Hexagon, Mineral, Free Lou, and Pine. What really stood out to me was that while Jeremiah has the incredible work ethic and passion for hospitality that you would expect from someone with his resume, he is equally passionate about promoting a sustainable work life balance in hospitality. And towards the end of the conversation, we really get into the details of how the Pine tries to do that for its staff. Here's my conversation with Jeremiah Thomas. Jeremiah, thank you so much for being
Jeremiah Tomas:here, Alex. Thanks for having me.
Alex Abbott Boyd:To kick things off, could you share a little bit about who you are, what you do, and how you found your way into wine and hospitality?
Jeremiah Tomas:Hello, everyone. I'm Jeremiah. Last name, Thomas. Thomas without n h. Everyone gets that wrong.
Jeremiah Tomas:I'm the general manager at The Pine in Cremor. I've worked through lots of different restaurants coming to this point, and I'm really proud to where I am right now. But it did take a lot of work and a lot of kind of being in the grunt of it and trying to work my way to see where I wanted to be in this industry, albeit a general manager going through the front of house, getting out of the back of house, learning wine, learning cocktails, learning beverages, and etcetera. I got into this industry very young. It's one of the first things that I wanted to do in high school was to join a co op class that led me into joining the hospitality industry.
Jeremiah Tomas:I actually started off by entering into the back of house. I ended up being a stagier or free cook for a restaurant when I was 16. And working through that, I've never looked back since. Just being part of the industry, I always felt like I wanted to be a part of restaurants. I always love the energy behind restaurants and also the hospitality behind all of it.
Jeremiah Tomas:I didn't really get to the front of house until a little bit later on to my career. From high school, I ended up getting a job working as a prep cook and pizzaiolo or pizza maker at a restaurant called Soho House Toronto, the private club at Adelaide in Simcoe. 17 working in a private club was daunting, but it was something of a life changing experience for me. Being a part of a team that was all grown adults and being a 17 year old kid just trying to find his way into what my career wanted to be. I think that was really pivotal for me, to gain any experience into what I wanted to do for the rest of my life.
Alex Abbott Boyd:What was it about that experience that really clicked?
Jeremiah Tomas:I grew up very competitive in terms of playing team sports, particularly basketball. And it was always something of me working alongside of a team towards a common goal, whether I was part of the lead as I'm a little bit smaller. I wasn't blessed with a lot of heights, so I was always, like, the point guard on a basketball team. And I always needed to find a larger voice to command people that were bigger than me, but to do it all cohesively so that I could build a team and work together to win. So forward tracking to working in a restaurant, I guess I found a little bit of similarity there where I was a young kid, and I didn't have much of a voice, not much of a career backing me, trying to find my way through it, and a lot of people surrounding me with experience and with either aspirations to be a greater cook or chef or through just the necessity of being an adult and needing a job.
Jeremiah Tomas:I found that I really grew up quickly working in a restaurant like that, just being surrounded by all of those different individuals at different points of life that I had not even thought of yet.
Alex Abbott Boyd:How many years were you cooking?
Jeremiah Tomas:Was cooking for about three years. I would say that I was not the greatest cook. Okay. I also found a lot of deterrence from being in that industry for too long just just because I know my strengths, and I found out very quickly that I couldn't keep up. And being a adolescent still, groaning, and the fact that every morning I'd have to wake up and go prep, and then I fell into that kind of lifestyle of a typical back of house kitchen staff member where even in the city here, it's like sometimes in the winter, you wouldn't see sunlight.
Jeremiah Tomas:And I was like, oh, man, I want to talk to people. And I ended up being one of these staff members in the back of house or the kitchen where I was always, like, chatting, and you could see the adults that were around. They're like, okay. Alright. Down.
Jeremiah Tomas:You need to settle down, dude. I know you're asking me a lot of questions, but I'm also like I'm not your father. And it's you find that I I still I guess I found that I still really wanted to be a part of that, but I was trying to figure that out. So right out of the kitchen, I got close to one of the head beverage people at Soho House, and they recommended and referred me to a cafe. And then I was a barista for a couple years.
Jeremiah Tomas:Barista stuff was fantastic, and specialty coffee was great, but I didn't like waking up early. So I ended up moving into bartending. And then after bartending was great, but then after I didn't want to be out that late, I also want to start a family. And then you start progressing into the more well rounded avenue of actual just dining in a restaurant and combining all of my experience together and working there. So that's where I started to work in.
Jeremiah Tomas:I moved into Oliver and Bonaccini first, a big company. And I ended up being a part of a restaurant opening, which was really lovely, and that company allowed me to have different feet in different places. So I got the chance to be immersed into the casual dining, and then I got the chance to get my feet wet into really fine dining. And what were
Alex Abbott Boyd:the O and B spots?
Jeremiah Tomas:Canoe and Auberge de Palmier. Okay. So those two for me. I never fully worked at these places, but I got the chance to do, like, a couple shifts here and there. Yeah.
Jeremiah Tomas:And I truly thank Oliver and Manachini, like, as a company for allowing that flexibility of some staff members to be I was pushy and trying to be everywhere and just trying to get experience elsewhere. And as soon as I hit those two places, I was like, there is a level of excellence and a pursuit of excellence, and you could see teamwork being involved and just, like, I'm an inherently competitive person, and I'm like, I want that. Yeah.
Alex Abbott Boyd:And what roles were you doing?
Jeremiah Tomas:I was bartending and serving. So just at those restaurants, you can't just come in and serve, so you have to take a lot of a backseat here. And there's a lot of ego where you think, oh, man. Like, I could be you. I could run laps around you.
Jeremiah Tomas:I know you're older, and you're probably a great server, but I could do what you're doing. And I started to see that, and then that's where the fine dining bite happened. And it was just from there, just a pursuit of, man, there's so much more to this that can be learned and explored. And then it really humbles you too because you're like, there are restaurants around the world that are going for glory, and you want that, especially in Canada where we're just slowly entering into the marketplace of really high quality world traveling restaurants and, like
Alex Abbott Boyd:Do you think we're just entering into that marketplace, or you think we're just getting recognition?
Jeremiah Tomas:I think our ecosystem of restaurants has always been great. I was good. Dining has always been great here because of the diverse amount of culture that we have here. Dining has always been great, but I can't say that we have been on the world stage or comparable to being a world class region for dining up until recently. And I recently last, like, six, seven, eight years.
Jeremiah Tomas:But that doesn't have anything to do with the restaurants from before. It's just everyone is now coming to the GTA, and more talent is coming. And we are evolving as a region where we're pulling from our own produce from Canada instead of taking from around the world. Yeah. So a little bit of a change there where we're being a little bit more proud of Canadian cuisine rather than emulating things from around the world.
Jeremiah Tomas:I think now as a country finding our voice there Yeah. And really saying that, okay. Canada can be on the world stage, and we have the talent to make it happen. And we have the abundance of produce in Canada that is world class, and it just needs the right people to do that. And
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. You look at, like, North America's 50 best or any of those rankings, there's a good chunk of that list in Quebec, Ontario, and Vancouver.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. We just need the travelers and the right amount of people to say yes to coming to dine in Canada, and it's just getting better. The trajectory of dining has just been up. The inclusion for our restaurant to be into the guide has just been monumental because it just allows for us and Pearl Morissette and Hexagon, but it just allows people to be more aware of what's outside of Toronto. Oh, man.
Jeremiah Tomas:You can go to Niagara, and there's some credible world class food there. You can go to Cremor, Ontario, and I kid you not a lot of people in Toronto just think Cremor is a beer. Yeah. And you're like, no. That's actually a town, and there is a region there that is abundant and full of great produce.
Jeremiah Tomas:And it's just becoming better and better, and there are restaurants in our region. There are restaurants in Niagara as well and restaurants even in Prince Edward County that are just raising the level of excellence in Ontario, and it is lovely to see. Because you would think that and I could be a little ignorant, but I just keep that to myself. There there can be a stigma around fine dining where restaurants are competitive amongst each other when, in my ignorance, I could say, we're all very collaborative. A lot of us want each other to succeed.
Jeremiah Tomas:Obviously, there's still a little bit of ego that comes with that, and you still wanna be better than the other restaurant. But we all want the whole level of dining and fine dining especially to elevate so that there's more room for that to grow in Ontario. So
Alex Abbott Boyd:When an industry is new and growing and just gaining that reputation on a world stage, it makes so much more sense if everyone tries to lift each other up. Absolutely. Like, I think about there's so many stories of Robert Mondavi when he was building his winery. He talked about Napa.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. Yeah.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Not his own winery, and he tried to promote Napa
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Just to get that name out there. And he knew that would just that would benefit him, but it would if there were more successful wineries, that would also benefit
Jeremiah Tomas:him. Absolutely. Seeing restaurant Pearl Morissette recognizes a two Michelin star restaurant in Canada, people are like, we gotta go to Niagara now.
Alex Abbott Boyd:And people
Jeremiah Tomas:will make the travel as there are a lot of diners. There are a lot of people in this world that want to tick off all the Michelin star restaurants. And if you're traveling, I find I do this out of bad habit now as well, but I'll go whenever I travel to the Michelin Guide. And I'll go, okay. Is there a top tier restaurant that I have to check out?
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. And a lot of people do that, and a lot of people will travel all the way up to where we are too just to be, one, ticket off their list of, oh, I've been to this exclusive restaurant, but also to explore everything about what it is that we can offer as a restaurant ourselves. So we're excited about that. And so added a lot of positive value to our restaurant where a lot of people are like, oh, it should be a lot of pressure. It is, but we hold that type of pressure to ourselves as just regular standards.
Jeremiah Tomas:So it's nothing more than that.
Alex Abbott Boyd:If you were competitive in the way you described, the greatest pressure is competition is yourself. Right?
Jeremiah Tomas:You just
Alex Abbott Boyd:would be better.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. Yeah. I really treat it's so funny to say, but I treat fine dining, like, as a sport. I try to drink enough water so that I'm hydrated throughout service, paying attention to your diet and seeing, okay, maybe you've had a lot of or an abundance of carbs one day, and you're just, like, not able to get words out at a table. Yeah.
Jeremiah Tomas:Like, that, I try to tweak as much as possible and just I get really nervous when I things are out of place, and you wanna perform. Is it for me, it is a lot of that kind of performance. You wanna perform at your best for everyone that is entering into your space because, you know, it's an expensive restaurant, you don't want anyone to feel that the value is lost, and you wanna perform as much as possible for everyone that spends their hard earned money to come to your place. Studying guests beforehand, knowing who's coming in from around the world, and knowing that you're a local, and maybe trying to find information about you that could come into play when we're talking at the table. And just being a little bit of a step ahead, and that's that's what I will truly love about this kind of find outing sport.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Just Is that research that you do yourself?
Jeremiah Tomas:Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's a little obsessive, but it is advantageous to be one step ahead. And I mean that not to be no. Yeah.
Jeremiah Tomas:One step ahead of your clientele so that you can be able to provide as much as you can for them? Yeah. Okay. I guess it's coming from Hong Kong. Looking at my staff and seeing that there are certain members that can fluently communicate with them, putting them into the right place so that they're able to bridge that gap where they can find some familiarity knowing that a certain restaurant industry member is coming in and just let's say, just for an example, a chef comes in.
Jeremiah Tomas:Everyone in our team addressing the chef as chef. Welcome to the Pines chef. It's just kind of small things like that could be memorable without doing anything out of place from the normal, but just making The small details. Yep. And I love that.
Jeremiah Tomas:It just it makes me tick. And just the way that I've dined around the world and seen those details get hit, I go, that's what it's all about. And not to do it in unreasonable way, but to do it in a way that is subtle. And if you notice it, if you don't, it is what it is. Yeah.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. I love that stuff.
Alex Abbott Boyd:No. Those are the little details that make a meal a good meal to, like, a really special experience. And it's think it's what's the difference between giving someone food and giving them hospitality.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I went to I probably I won't say the restaurant's name, but I went to a two Michelin star restaurant in Paris. And it's apparent that my area code on my phone is Canadian.
Jeremiah Tomas:So for dessert, they gave me ice wine. Like, oh my gosh. This this is funny. And it's meaningful because, like, they they caught on to that, and they said it suddenly. We know you're from Canada.
Jeremiah Tomas:We wanted to treat you this to this. And it's just, like, a small little gesture like that where you're like, wow. They're paying attention.
Alex Abbott Boyd:And And you're still remembering it
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. A couple years later. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremiah Tomas:And you're like, that takes five minutes of extra work. Obviously, a lot of communication and coordination amongst the whole team. If you can achieve a level of dining that's like that, where you're paying attention to minute details, like, that's what I think is world class, and that doesn't take budgets that are millions of dollars to create. That's just paying attention.
Alex Abbott Boyd:No. You don't need EMPs like three Dreamweavers. Yeah.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. I don't need to pay for all of that to go make hot dogs or get hot dogs from a stand. Like, just paying attention to small things like that can make a world of difference. So I just find small details like that amusing and just I live for that. Okay.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah.
Alex Abbott Boyd:How long ago did you join the Pine? I
Jeremiah Tomas:joined the Pine last year, 2024, in late April, early June. Okay. And did it have the star then? It had the star that year in September. Okay.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yep. September 18. I don't remember the time, but it was about, like, 09:00PM. Okay. Oh, I remember the time.
Alex Abbott Boyd:That's very and so, like, when you joined, was it very much, like, one of the things that was talked about? Like, this is something that we're we're trying to work to the standard. We're hoping that we achieve.
Jeremiah Tomas:Sure. I think it was a little farfetched to think about that early on just because of its the guide was only in Toronto. No. So up until then, it was like, okay. You had to be in Toronto to get a Michelin star, which was tricky.
Alex Abbott Boyd:And ridiculous because half the ones in Europe are in little villages. Right?
Jeremiah Tomas:And then you're like, okay. Will they ever branch out to restaurants like Pro Marseille or us, Hexagon? And then immediately, like, they announced that there were gonna be Toronto and GTA or whatever they call it, so you have a little bit of hope. But even with all the Michelin Guide being a focus for a lot of the restaurants, it's also really funny and hypocritical to say that it's not our goal. The goal is just to be the best that we can be, and that is so cliche, but it is probably one of the only things I can say because it's truly how we live and truly how we see ourselves.
Jeremiah Tomas:Every day, we're working on trying to be just a little bit better than before, and that's also very cliche, but it it's a reality. Like, I talk to chef just every day about how we can get better. It's a little bit obsessive, but it's also just the lifestyle that we live. And Mhmm. It's fun that I work with a chef that is so dedicated to his craft.
Jeremiah Tomas:And I've always pursued chefs like this in the past, so all of my experiences in the past have been geared towards chefs that are really trying to perfect their craft in all the restaurants that I've worked in previously.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. You've worked in a great list of spots. Right? Langdon Hall, Mineral, Hexagon,
Jeremiah Tomas:Freely Freely before they closed.
Alex Abbott Boyd:What what draws you to those kind of places and chefs?
Jeremiah Tomas:Just the pursuit for high quality and perfection in their craft. Again, being just a a competitive person, always trying to find the best places to be at just for my own personal growth, and I want to work with the best people. I want to be one of the best. And right when going back to my experience of just setting my foot into places like Hubert de Pommier and Canoe and seeing that there is this level of prestige that is happening in the city. I didn't live very far from FreeLou, and I just went over there and applied.
Jeremiah Tomas:And I went into the space, and I'm like, this is nuts. It's like this small little restaurant and could seat maybe 20 people, and that's, like, generous, but just, like, ultra perfection. And you could see there was no dust even on anything, and you're like, this was so detailed in this, like, Japanese Nordic feel. And I was like, wow. This is something out of ordinary.
Jeremiah Tomas:And when I was working there and just seeing a little bit of those details come out and seeing, like, excellence happen.
Alex Abbott Boyd:What was your role there?
Jeremiah Tomas:A server
Alex Abbott Boyd:there. What was that transition like? You have these experiences at the O and D spots. I wanna move into a higher, say, fine dining style. You're moving from the from cooking into front of house.
Alex Abbott Boyd:How did you go about making that transition? So
Jeremiah Tomas:let's do this linearly. Let's I was cooking. I didn't like cooking very much because I didn't want to be trapped in the back house not seeing sunlight. Let's enter into Oliver and Bonaccini as a company. Great company.
Jeremiah Tomas:Starting up a restaurant. This was, like, fast casual Italian with a little bit of fine dining in detail. Cool. Let's start exploring different avenues within the company, setting my feet into fine dining restaurants like Canoe and Auberge de Pommier. Woah.
Jeremiah Tomas:Mind blown. Yeah. Okay. There's a restaurant that is quite close to me that is pursuing fine dining at a really high level, but it's in the middle of Thornhill. This is super strange.
Jeremiah Tomas:Let's go apply there. Let's go take a little bit of gamble and go see if I can work there. Got in. Working under the tutelage of the chef there and also just the team and seeing there be way more details than I could have ever imagined. Getting passed off a script every week and having to go through it and seeing that there are not just minuscule changes, major changes to the menu and having to know those things to a t and having that standard of being a server, being just elevated from there.
Jeremiah Tomas:Not only is just menu knowledge something of, let's say, a casual restaurant just being able to list off one or two or three ingredients and then just being ambiguous about the rest. Yeah. No. Knowing all the details about the cuisine, knowing all the ingredients, how they're treated, where they're from. Oh my goodness.
Jeremiah Tomas:That's so super cool.
Alex Abbott Boyd:And then after Was it a bit intimidating too? I imagine that's quite a Yeah. It's a it's a lot, especially if you're young and you've been bartending and just
Jeremiah Tomas:It's intimidating, but it's also it was it's a little bit of an ego thing where I was, no. I can do that. Yeah. It took a lot of work and a lot of nights just combing through details, learning things that I don't know of. What the heck is a salsify?
Jeremiah Tomas:I don't even know what sweetbreads are. And you're like, okay. There's so much more to learn that is out of my comfort sitting with my wife and just, like, reading off a script, and she's like, you know what it is, like and just trying to repeat it in a way that's also not robotic. Mhmm. Okay.
Jeremiah Tomas:And then getting from there. And then there was a little bit of a shift when I was working at FreeLou to where I transitioned from working there to Mineral, where I was really exploring, like, myself and seeing what it was that and what it meant to be Filipino and also what was Filipino cuisine. Because for me growing up, going back to that was, like, just sustenance and just, like, food and exploring what all of that was and being familiar with that and then working for a chef named Danny, who's still there now at Mineral, who's really dedicated to pursuing that as a elevated cuisine, Filipino cuisine, and now see like, to this day in 2025, seeing his cuisine evolve and really tip the scales of what Filipino cuisine can be in a fine dining space.
Alex Abbott Boyd:This is bit of an ignorant question, but are there many other Filipino fine dining restaurants, or is Mineral really pioneering?
Jeremiah Tomas:In Toronto, I guess they're the pioneers for it. I would I would say that there are Filipino restaurants, but in the kind of specific space of, quote, unquote, fine dining, they're the leaders. Let's just say that. And then seeing that the Michelin Guide went to The Philippines this year and awarded restaurant stars. Oh, yeah.
Jeremiah Tomas:I'm sure
Alex Abbott Boyd:in The Philippines, there's a lot of great fine dining.
Jeremiah Tomas:Oh my gosh. But you Yeah. They just the entry of that now. And then so there's a they just awarded a two star in Manila or, pardon my ignorance, somewhere in The Philippines. In Chicago, they awarded Kasama, which is a Filipino restaurant, and it just it's so exciting to see that cuisine move forward and become recognized worldwide as something that's not because for me growing up, it's it was just not the most appealing food.
Jeremiah Tomas:It's a lot of stewed food, a lot of food that, like, my friends would just look at and go, that's, like, really stinky. Just for anyone that
Alex Abbott Boyd:might not know, what would you say are just, like, a couple hallmarks of Filipino cuisine or maybe some classic dishes that people might know.
Jeremiah Tomas:Staple cuisine, chicken adobo, or just adobo in general. You would look at that dish and you go, oh my goodness. It's chicken, rice, and just brown. You look at that dish, it's not, like, visually appealing. And then you taste it, you're like, this is delicious.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. But for just general eyes, you're like, oh, get something else. And so seeing that flavor could be interpreted through, let's say and this is why I was really drawn to working with Dani at Mineral, like, those aspects of the cuisine and then really elevating it in a way that was not just looking good, not just looking contemporary, but just elevated flavors. I was so excited about doing that. And then the pandemic hit.
Jeremiah Tomas:So that was really a turning point in my career because it was a lot of exploring if hospitality could last. Yeah. Exploring if I needed to do something else and pivot from this career trajectory of working in a fine dining restaurant because is that going to be something of the future? And it's wild
Alex Abbott Boyd:that we've thought those things at the time.
Jeremiah Tomas:Crazy. I got married in the pandemic. I was like, oh my goodness. Everyone's asking me, like, if is this something that could sustain a family? Is this something that could sustain just going forward in the future and building a family?
Jeremiah Tomas:And I didn't know. So it was just waiting on things to open up. And so the reason why I ended up a little bit West Of Ontario was because we needed to move out, my wife and I, and we ended up moving in with her parents. And they live in the region that's just North Of Guelph. And in that region, there's no fine dining.
Jeremiah Tomas:So I needed to explore what that meant for me, and the only places that were in relative proximity to where we were living were Langdon Hall and Hexagon. And for me, it was starting from zero. Okay. I started at Langdon as a server. Again, it's okay.
Jeremiah Tomas:I could take all of this experience that I had and pitch something, and got it. And they were gracious enough to let me in, and there's this thing that I cling on to, and this is very detailed that I think has continued on to my career was. I applied online via email, cover letter, CV, everything, resume. Seventeen minutes later, and I count because it's just it was very apparent to me. Like, I was clued into this.
Jeremiah Tomas:Seventeen minutes later, someone called me in their management team, set up an interview, set up everything, and I had a job pretty much the next day after after the interview process. Oh, man. So Oh my goodness. So
Alex Abbott Boyd:happens. It's usually a black hole you send your resume to.
Jeremiah Tomas:That's what I mean too. Like, just out of pitch. Yeah. But to see that someone was still there overlooking things, and it wasn't just pitching your resume to somewhere and yeah. Like you were saying, have it be like a black hole.
Jeremiah Tomas:I was like, oh, man. They take that stuff seriously. And if they see a resume that comes through that has merit, has worth to consider, let's make it happen. And then I felt that energy right away, and I was like, yeah. Okay.
Jeremiah Tomas:I'm on board. Jumping into the team at Langdon. Okay. I get into a team of servers was special, but everyone was a, quote, unquote, veteran server. Yeah.
Jeremiah Tomas:So, again, looking back to when I was 17 going into a kitchen and being immersed into people that were, like, adults and knew their craft, I get immersed into the situation where these are all career servers. They mean nothing but business. Management, nothing but business. I'm in this space, and this is just another moment for me, like going into free loop where I'm like, oh my goodness. There is another level to this.
Jeremiah Tomas:And if you didn't know your stuff, if you didn't know where things were, if you didn't know how to work, if you didn't know the systems in play, if you didn't know how to talk or be hospitable, you didn't know anything about wine, He didn't know anything about just these servers would this is where I say polite. They would eat you out and just rip you apart.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Did they do that to you?
Jeremiah Tomas:No. Okay. For me, that was, like, that was a challenge. Just learning things at Frilo where what's intimidating, it's no. This is if I'm wanna be a part of the best teams that are working for the best restaurants in Canada, I have to step up, and I have to be like that.
Jeremiah Tomas:I have to know my stuff, and I have to elevate myself too. And I joined on this team, and just it was like magic. You just see all of these team members working cohesively together into an experience that was magical, and I'm like, man, this is fine dining. Yeah. And you enter into a space where I was, I guess, mesmerized by that kind of talent and immersed into just I don't know if you've been to the space at Langdon Hall, but I have.
Jeremiah Tomas:It is magical. Like, the grounds, you walk in, there's a fireplace roaring, classical piano happening, white linen pressed perfectly, and you're like, k. Like, this is something unique. And then pandemic kept growing, and then things started to shift way there. And you're like, okay.
Jeremiah Tomas:Things I wouldn't say we're never the same, but you could see that things took a hit in the hospitality industry in general, and a lot of people needed to make decisions to step away from that.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Funny. You you talk about the pandemic forcing you guys out of the city and kinda reevaluating. But what kept you in the industry? You could take a drive for perfection and a competitiveness. You could have joined a bank.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Right? Like Yeah. You could there's so many routes you could have gone.
Jeremiah Tomas:I guess ignorance. Just I know this can work. I know this will work, and that's when I started to move into management. Before that, I was split because there was less work at Langdon because of the pandemic. So I needed to find something else, and that's when I also worked at Hexagon at the same time.
Jeremiah Tomas:So I was working between both restaurants. And I was a server at Hexagon and a server at Langdon at the exact same time Wow. Working just so that if, let's say, a lockdown happened, okay, I had worked and sell But at that level, that's a lot that's double the details you've gotta learn. Yeah. It was a lot of coming home and just studying, which was you get pigeoned into doing things for your family, and I don't regret any of that.
Jeremiah Tomas:It comes to a point where it's very challenging for yourself, and it's a lot of pressure as a contributing member of the household to contribute. And if it takes staying up and combing through details and being on my a game all the time, then so be it. And that was a very challenging part of my life, but it was definitely rewarding as you create so many relationships with like minded people. I when I was at Hexagon, I worked with chef Rafa. That he's there right now.
Jeremiah Tomas:And you can immediately click with some people, and you just see, oh my goodness. You're working so hard. And without even me telling you anything about what I do behind the scenes, having a chef just, like, zero you in and go, I know you're cut from the same cloth. That's so awesome to feel.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Sounds very affirming at a time where you're so hard.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. It's very affirming. And then also seeing that happen at the exact same time at Langdon, it was like, oh my goodness. This I like you said, what was the driving factor for me to stay in this industry, especially if I could just transition all my focus into a different industry with my kind of personality and competitive nature, and it was definitely that. There's a lot of affirmations from people that are excellent at their craft.
Jeremiah Tomas:I definitely owe a lot of the trajectory of my career to that because at that time, when things were settling down from the pandemic, I got approached from both of these restaurants with management positions. And so for me, this was a turning point. Okay. Do I work for one of these two? Do I work for both of them and still stay in the role that I'm at as a server, or do I pursue something that is a little bit more challenging?
Jeremiah Tomas:It's not taking away from the challenges of the server position, but then it's adding more factors to what you would experience as a manager. And then I took that on working at Langdon. And then that was my four or five years after that, I'm just figuring that all out.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. When did wine start to
Jeremiah Tomas:come into the picture? Wine was always in the picture. From working at O and B, I took WSAT two and three just as a competitive thing. I just never wanted to look like I didn't know what I want was talking about. I'd never wanted to have not enough information.
Jeremiah Tomas:If like, I really wanted to make sure that if you're coming in and paying for an experience, you have someone that is competent and knowledgeable telling you on all the information with full transparency Yep. Without having to, and this happens a lot, lie about things or be really ambiguous about things where you don't get a straight answer, and then as a guest, you feel uncomfortable about it. Yeah. So I guess the pursuit of knowledge was always there, and it always had to do with wine. And it's still something that I continue to try to learn about to this day, but it's harder now as the general manager to take both those things on, and I am the general manager and wine director at the same time.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Wait. Is that the first time you were buying wine, or did you buy wine at
Jeremiah Tomas:This is the first time.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Oh, okay.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. So I was very, very fortunate enough to work alongside a very knowledgeable team at Langdon.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. Yeah. They have an incredible wine
Jeremiah Tomas:Incredible wine program. At the time that I was there, there were eight sommeliers on the team, including a wine director. So nine Yeah. Technically. On the floor on a given night, there would be four to five sommeliers on a busy Saturday night.
Jeremiah Tomas:And just getting all that information, one service after another and everything from pairings to just learning about wines that I'll never ever try in my life to the books, to pricing and cost, and to the very intriguing industry that is the importer sector and learning how to navigate around the independent, smaller importers like yourself and then the big players. And we're learning how to navigate that a budget that's not like Langan Hall, where I can't just finagle a case of DRC, I e, that'll never sell. And mostly reliant on tasting menu and sorry. Wine pairing Yeah. Where it's not a lot of bottle sales.
Jeremiah Tomas:It's just a lot of making sure that it's paired with food gastronomically. That has been something that has been challenging, but so rewarding to learn from and to have the colleagues that have been able to support me in that kind of pursuit for excellence that way.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Was there any more formal education you did? Is there any
Jeremiah Tomas:Apart from w three, no. Okay. No. After that, I call not to say that there won't be anywhere in the future. Got my hands full with a six month old.
Jeremiah Tomas:Oh, you don't.
Alex Abbott Boyd:You do.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. I I'm learning to spread my time accordingly amongst my work and family, and that's been very rewarding working at the Pine because we all are pretty much in the same situation. Chef's got a one year old. Two of my sous chefs both have their second kid. One of my servers is on mat leave.
Jeremiah Tomas:She had her first.
Alex Abbott Boyd:It's surprising given the demands of working in a spot like the Pine. How are you guys all balancing it? I I owe a two and a half year old, and I just know it's tough.
Jeremiah Tomas:I owe it all to my bosses, Jeremy and Cassie. They have always been dedicated to finding that balance amongst their own family and amongst everyone else's family and being so flexible at that. But then also with that comes just as soon as you come to work, it's once you're at work, everyone is there for the greater goal that is whatever you wanna take the restaurant, but also take the time. Have as much time as you need with your family and just also have that balance because we want this not to be a restaurant that is just a restaurant. They really want this restaurant to be something that'll last forever.
Jeremiah Tomas:I'm on board with that too and not something that is just like a bad Yeah. Or something that'll
Alex Abbott Boyd:in the pen.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. Yeah. So that's, yeah, that's where we're at right now. I will always continue to learn about the industry. My pursuit for learning more about wine grows every day just because I am just enamored by the idea of a wine pairing and how that fits in a structure of a tasting menu and also having just so many different factors in terms of how to price one accordingly, how do you find the right value for the guest, as well as how do you balance that with the amount of cost that you need to have an inventory of wines where you don't want it to sit forever.
Jeremiah Tomas:And Yeah. It's it's a fun game to play.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Do you think there's more freedom that you have not having Toronto rent to pay? 100%.
Jeremiah Tomas:Oh, not to say that we are not
Alex Abbott Boyd:For sure, the costs are gonna be very high running a restaurant of this caliber.
Jeremiah Tomas:But
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. I often wonder if that's just why it can be so tough in in Toronto to find a good deal.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. It's also a little bit tougher our way too because we're so far. Some people there's a lot of different factors that go into play. I don't have just logistically a lot of space to hold wine. And in that sense, I don't want to just have boxes to the ceiling.
Jeremiah Tomas:I want things to move. But we're in Cremor, Ontario. So if I'm out of a wine one week and it doesn't come two weeks later, I'm screwed.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. A one once a week delivery is correct.
Jeremiah Tomas:A week delivery and sometimes during service was just like I'm just gonna leave that there. It's it's quite challenging, and it's you have to be creative. And that's what I love about the space that we are in too because chef also has not the greatest time finding premium ingredients and ingredients in general, and you have to be the most creative with what you have. And I think there's so much that comes about having less of an abundance of things that are at your disposal and just, like, figuring it out. There's a beauty there where if you can do it, you when you do get premium ingredients, it's just, I'd rather have things that are more creative, and you'd rather find
Alex Abbott Boyd:What do you mean? Because I would think that you're getting great produce across the board. So what do you mean by a premium ingredient versus a creative?
Jeremiah Tomas:A five Wagyu, caviar from Russia Yeah. Uni from Japan. Those ingredients we'll never get. Just because it, one, doesn't make sense to the ethos of our restaurant, we stick to only Canadian ingredients. Yeah.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Do you do the no pepper and no citrus that
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. We don't use citrus, lemon, or lime just because it's not grown here. And if we do use citrus, it's really expensive. Calamounci from Quebec had a farm that does it really expensively, and we'll source it just because we want to use it. But, yeah, the ethos of the restaurant is that we only use Canadian ingredients, and that has proven to be very challenging for Jeremy.
Jeremiah Tomas:But that was at the start to now this day where we found he's found all of these things where now we're in a restaurant that has been awarded a star based off of the creativity from the lack of abundance of ingredients. So, oh, man, how do we keep going with that, and how do we keep pursuing that? And that's where the wine program has also started. Before me, Jeremy's wife, Cassie, was leading the restaurant and the wine program as well. And she led it very creatively with Ontario wines only, doing a tasting menu with only Ontario wines.
Jeremiah Tomas:And when I took on that role, I was very respective of that and always wanted to make sure that I was not deviating from the original plan of wines that fit cool climate regions. It was strictly Ontario, maybe some BC here and there, but making sure that any of the wines or any decisions of wines that I have made or am making currently are lateral to what we can do here in Ontario Yeah. With a lot of grandeur, with burgundy, but fitting within the same landscape there.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Is there a ratio, say, like, 50% Ontario, 50% from abroad, moving target?
Jeremiah Tomas:I would say it's a moving target, and the target now is less Ontario just because in the recent year, I've moved from finding not just lateral wines to Ontario, but lateral wines to Ontario that are prestigious and also gastronomically the best pairing. Yeah. So with that, objectively, I've taken away focus a lot from Ontario. I just want the best wine pairing fitting into the ethos of the restaurant. So if it has to be a single vineyard GG from, like, a German riesling versus a Ontario riesling, I'm going to pick that.
Jeremiah Tomas:If it's going to be premier curt Burgundy, I'm going to pick that versus our Ontario or Prince Edward County grown Pinot Noir. Just right now, this is where I've headed in terms of my structure of the wine pairing. Yeah. I just want objectively the best pairings, especially if you're traveling from afar. Not to say that there isn't great wines here.
Jeremiah Tomas:It has just taken a little bit of an evolution now. And now the price point of guests coming from around the world, they want to see premium labels. That's what I found as I've stepped foot working into this restaurant.
Alex Abbott Boyd:So do you think it works then? And look. I'm very biased because I don't sell Ontario wine. I want you to keep buying imported wine.
Jeremiah Tomas:Right.
Alex Abbott Boyd:But it's such a strong ethos of the food to keep it all Canadian. How do you think that lives with the imported wine? It's I mean, to to challenge you, I bet if you worked really hard, traveled to the wine countries here, built relationships, got back vintage stuff from Niagara and Okanagan, you could do it.
Jeremiah Tomas:So I've been able to get a lot of back vintage things. I guess it's a little bit more along the lines of our clientele. They're just not as interested in seeing it, which is unfortunate because my program, originally, I was looking at back vintage Rieslings and back vintage Cabernet Franc and introducing it in a way that was, like, exciting, but a lot of people just don't get it. Yeah. It was unfortunate.
Jeremiah Tomas:And, also, the price point, a lot of people didn't find the value there. And, also, with that, a lot of people and a lot of our clientele wanted to spend more Because there aren't any upgraded proteins or upgraded ingredients that you can source to add on to our cuisine, we get a lot of clientele that do travel that just want to spend the most amount of money.
Alex Abbott Boyd:It's a nice problem to have.
Jeremiah Tomas:It's a very nice problem to have, but it can be very challenging when you get an international traveler or someone that wants to be of a showman that can't. And that's where we've done a little bit of that through the beverage program.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. So as in rather than bringing in stuff from Hokkaido, you're gonna you're gonna bring in some great champagne and burgundy. Exactly.
Jeremiah Tomas:And that's where you find that's where I've found the trajectory of the wine program go. Because you could I still, to this day, have a lot of back vintage things in Ontario. I just don't want it to sit. And, also, it's a little bit of a harder sell, which is unfortunate, but that's just been the reality for where the industry, our clientele is today. I hope it evolves, and I hope to keep these relationships that I have with wineries in Ontario Yeah.
Jeremiah Tomas:Great. And I support them as much as I can, and that's fantastic. For the clientele that wants to ball out, they would rather ball out on something else. Yeah. Which is unfortunate.
Alex Abbott Boyd:That that makes a lot of sense.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. Yeah.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. I realize we didn't cover this. So maybe you could just share just a little bit, like, what is you you talked about the pine in terms of the ingredients it uses, but what's the cuisine all about?
Jeremiah Tomas:Oh, yeah.
Alex Abbott Boyd:And, yeah, I'd love to touch on that. And then maybe you mentioned how much you enjoy finding a great pairing. I'd love to hear just, like, a couple of your favorite pairings that
Jeremiah Tomas:you've done. The pine is chef Jeremy's journey through utilizing Ontario ingredients, and I say journey, and a lot of his experience working elsewhere around the world, particularly China. He has also worked in Italy and taking a lot of that and utilizing Ontario ingredients through that lens. So Ontario cooking through the lens of international cuisine, particularly Chinese cuisine. It's a
Alex Abbott Boyd:lot that's a big mouthful, but It is because the ingredients that grow here are definitely different. Yeah.
Jeremiah Tomas:Jeremy puts it really great in the sense that when you go to China, a lot of the cuisine has a lot to do with resourcefulness, and resourcefulness is so key when we talk about cuisine here. It's not just farm to table and utilizing everything on beef, let's say. It's utilizing everything that's with beef, but also I only have salt, pepper, and radish from over there. That's resourcefulness. Like, you you don't have anything.
Jeremiah Tomas:How do you make the best out of nothing? The Chinese cuisine where he's worked through, it's the most simplest ingredients, but they've over generations have just utilized resourcefulness to their advantage in making cuisine that is simple, fast, easy, and so delicious. Yeah. And so trying to take that ethos to cooking here in Ontario, the simplest way to put it, though, is kind of creative cuisine. Just really exploring what we can do with what we have here in Ontario through the lens of everything that he's learned in the past, but definitely just creative Ontario cuisine.
Alex Abbott Boyd:And what are some of the signature dishes?
Jeremiah Tomas:One signature dish that is very special that has never changed is the carrot jiaocha, which is a dumpling. It's it's very simple. It's a dumpling with carrot, a carrot puree, and a little bit of brown butter and chives, and that's it. Yeah. It's very special because of just the way that he's prepared.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Are the only spice? Sorry.
Jeremiah Tomas:Chives. That's it. Wow. Yeah. Brown butter also is, like, the technical way to add a lot of flavor to there and just you see a dish that's very humble and the humble carrot, but I'm not gonna spoil the way he does it, but just the way that he treats that ingredient in a way that's not as common here, not as common in China, and blending it together.
Jeremiah Tomas:You're not gonna see a carrot dumpling in China. Yeah. You're just not.
Alex Abbott Boyd:You're just Is butter a big ingredient there?
Jeremiah Tomas:No. No. Not at all. But then blending all of that and putting it all together and just making something, that hasn't changed since the day they started. Everything else is up for grabs because it's just we don't want to settle on anything just because you wanna keep being creative, but there are a handful of dishes, including that one, has never changed.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Okay. What wine would you pair with?
Jeremiah Tomas:Riesling. 100%. Yeah. 100%. Just the way that Style.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Cabinet. Off suite.
Jeremiah Tomas:Cabinet. 100%. Like, I it's funny to say that's like a that's like a shoe in pairing, It just works so well. Oh my goodness. The way that also the brown butter acts with the Riesling.
Jeremiah Tomas:The choice of Cabinet Riesling that I take to a little bit less alcohol, also some off dryness Yeah. Really balances so well with the sweetness of the carrot. Yeah. And then the dish is so rich inherently. So having a little bit of backbone with the Riesling's acidity Yeah.
Jeremiah Tomas:You're just like, this is stupid. Yeah. Sounds so good. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremiah Tomas:Also, Riesling for, obviously, the wine community is fantastic, But Riesling with Chinese food is also fantastic. So it's a safe pairing, but it is a shoe in pairing that I'm so proud of too because you're like, k. Objectively, it makes sense. Objectively, things go together. But if it works, don't change it.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. Also, find the best reasoning for it. Find the best pairing to make sure that the dish stands out the best too. Yeah. For me, my wine program has a lot to do with being the vehicle for promoting the food in the best way possible so that you can have the best fine dining gastronomic experience that you can.
Jeremiah Tomas:So if it has to do with the wine chosen to elevate the food, that's great. I also play with theatrics in wine. I also play with theatrics in presenting food. So it all is the vehicle to making sure that your experience dining is great. I've often find time
Alex Abbott Boyd:Can you give me an example of something theatrical?
Jeremiah Tomas:Right now with the main courses, two main courses, I put a triple wine pairing with a triple synchronized pour. Okay. Wow. So myself and my colleague will drop three glasses and then synchronize pour all three of them at the same time. That's pretty cool.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. I love theatrics, and it has a lot to do with guest engagement and trying to make sure that gets carried on throughout the whole meal and trying not to lose your attention because it is, like, a overwhelming experience. And so you get you get your wine pairings, blah blah blah blah, and then you there's a slight moment where you get your palate cleanser. It's okay. I can settle in.
Jeremiah Tomas:It's great. We're going into the main courses. And then we just hit you with three different ones. It's okay, Heather. What's going on?
Jeremiah Tomas:And then your main course hits, and then your next main course hits. And then like, okay. Great.
Alex Abbott Boyd:That sounds like so much so I'd love to know what are those three wines. And are they it's because
Jeremiah Tomas:Right now because they get to try a dish and
Alex Abbott Boyd:then maybe even pick their favorite in the lineup.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. For me, that's really important because it is a moment where you get to choose your own journey here. The three wines that I have with the main courses currently, I have a list on Blanco. I have a Spatbergander, and then I have a Syrah. A list on Blanco from the Canary Islands.
Jeremiah Tomas:You're playing around with some little bit of volcanic nature. Is it a Vignatigo or a different This is Paolo Blanco and Avante. I don't I think I might be portraying that. And then I have a Spatberg under, so German Pinot Noir. So going back to the Lisanne Blanco, a lot of, I guess, a volcanic nature.
Jeremiah Tomas:Still has a lot of mineral backbone, some acidity too because the main courses can be quite rich. So I love having that as something that you can carry throughout all three wines. So we'll place that there. The next wine, spatbergander. You have a lot of acidity there.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. The Chinese dishes that we have a lot of richness, so using those wines in conjunction with each other. There is red meat too, so I wanna make sure that's not missed in a wine that kind of just gets lost. That's why it's only one white then two red. And then I'm not going to spoil the main course because I just you have to come see it for yourself.
Jeremiah Tomas:But with the main course, there's a lot of rose, red yeast,
Alex Abbott Boyd:spice. See, there's a theatricalism or or theatrical nature. You're not even telling me, and it's getting me excited.
Jeremiah Tomas:I wanna I wanna come now. Beetroot. I mean, that for me is, like, Northern Rhone, and I love Northern Rhone Syrah in that way where somewhat that granite nature of Syrah goes so well with the proteins and especially the jus. And having all those three balance between both dishes, I found, one, this is more of a service thing. It is advantageous that I can pour a flight right before both courses Yeah.
Jeremiah Tomas:And then let the guests mingle in that so that it's gone so that I'm able to navigate when not have to do another pairing. And then also, it just is it's exciting. You're like, oh my goodness. Look at all this wine that they've poured for me, and you get to choose your own journey that way. So I love how all of those work together.
Jeremiah Tomas:It's very challenging to find three wines that work with three I
Alex Abbott Boyd:would never have thought to pair those three styles of wine, but Yeah. It's working.
Jeremiah Tomas:It Yeah. It's working well, and it's exciting. And you I work well balancing the flavors that chef Jeremy decides on and find a lot of excitement in that because it's also challenging too.
Alex Abbott Boyd:How many courses and how many wines are there currently?
Jeremiah Tomas:Upwards to 22 courses, upwards to eight wines. Okay. Three ounce forms? I don't want people on the floor. Let's say
Alex Abbott Boyd:I was gonna say
Jeremiah Tomas:Let's say two.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Let's say two. If I drank a bottle of wine
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. It'd be people are mostly driving, so that also has a lot to do with the nonalcoholic program that we have. I found that very important. I went to a restaurant, another two Michelin star restaurant in Amsterdam, and my wife was pregnant at the time with our first. And the nonalcoholic pairing was almost better than the wine pairing, and we're because we I went back and forth because didn't want her to be full off the pairing, and it's like, this is intense.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. So I find a lot of joy in doing that too just so that the experience isn't lost for K.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Another guest. Can you share a little bit about how you make a good nonalc? Because I guess for me, what's often been a struggle with nonalc pairings is alcohol has a way it slows you down. But if something's just like a delicious blend of juices, I'll just drink it, and then it's gone. So I know, like, carbonation can do that, but I'd be curious.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Bitterness can do that, but I'd be curious on
Jeremiah Tomas:Carbonation, bitterness, temperature, texture. So you find that you can introduce some textures with richer courses or vice versa, trying to contrast it with a thinner texture with a heavier course. There's lots of ways to play around with it. But to answer your question on making a wine Or just maybe
Alex Abbott Boyd:it was one or two examples.
Jeremiah Tomas:My bar manager, Eric, does an incredible job at building these things, but for us, it's the ingredient first. So for us, we're at such a big advantage because we have our own farm that provides ingredients that are parallel to the dish themselves. A house cap juice with house cap dessert, It's gonna work really well and also in conjunction with the team the pastry team working with us and just making sure that everything is balanced together so that it's not, if you think about it, a pairing against the food. It's a cohesive unit. So if you get the nonalcoholic pairing, you're just getting an extension of the dish.
Jeremiah Tomas:And I think that's really important to think about instead of just finding a dish and then matching it. If you're making a cohesive program, making sure that it's, like I said, like an extension of the dish rather than it just being something that speaks for itself. If tomato water with a tomato dish. So you see different elements of tomato come through. We have cold steep teas made from let's say, there's marigold on a dish.
Jeremiah Tomas:There's marigold in our backyard. We're going to use that and introduce it in a way that just carries the dish Yeah. In its longevity.
Alex Abbott Boyd:And then how do you make it, like, a marigold tea or tomato water are delicious, but maybe they certainly lack the complexity of a fine wine. So how what other layers how do you build in those layers?
Jeremiah Tomas:It's definitely then it comes to, I guess, like, treatment. So carbonation introducing different temperatures. Can't give you everything away. But it's and then not to say that this is, like, a I don't wanna say cop out for it, but theatrics have a lot to do in play with things too and how we present things. Theatrics and this is, a huge conversation, but theatrics can really elevate something that is a little bit mundane.
Jeremiah Tomas:And sometimes that's all you need so that it doesn't overtake the dish. Like I was saying before in all the programs that I have, it's all complimentary. I don't ever wanna take away from the food, and neither does any like, the bar manager that I have to. It's really making sure that the food is highlighted first so that the program itself is part of the whole and not its own thing. I didn't wanna go to the I don't wanna go to a restaurant and go, oh, the wine program or wine pairing was what I really liked, and the food was, like, secondary or vice versa.
Jeremiah Tomas:The wine pairing was just felt like something was thrown together Yeah. And not cohesive with the whole unit and making sure that's all tied in together, and that's the most important thing for me. And then using things that are just like you would you think secondhand of having beet root juice with your main course. But then the way that we have our main course and the way we present it and the way we ferment and do things with our juices makes sense. Yeah.
Jeremiah Tomas:Wild rice and never mind. I'm just gonna There's lots of the I
Alex Abbott Boyd:love that. I love that it's it's like, I'm going out to dinner at a tasting menu spot with my wife for anniversary, and we've already planned out. We'll do one non ALK pairing
Jeremiah Tomas:Right.
Alex Abbott Boyd:One ALK pairing and then share it. That way, we can just get the total experience, and neither of us are gonna be, like, too drunk at the end. So I think it's But
Jeremiah Tomas:I think it's really important as a thing for tasting menu restaurants to be able to speak to the moment in time of when the pairing is or when you're dining? For example, if you're coming in the winter, we're going to give you all winter ingredients. You are in this moment of us providing the best menu experience with what we have right now. And I find that gets sometimes neglected as a factor in fine dining where, you know, you just expect the best out of every single moment that you're there, which should be the case. It should be consistent all the way through.
Jeremiah Tomas:But you shouldn't expect freshness in the February.
Alex Abbott Boyd:We can't get fresh tomatoes and fresh strawberries in February? That's not gonna happen. So
Jeremiah Tomas:that comes to our challenge because we're at the mercy of our farm. So how do we navigate that For the nonalcoholic program and also for the food program, it's thinking in the spring. Like, okay. We're going to start fermenting things now. We're going to start preserving things now and doing things creatively so that we are not doing a 20 course potato menu or a juice program that is just versions of root vegetables and green juice from kale because that's all we can get right now.
Jeremiah Tomas:They're coming all the way back to thinking a step ahead. That's what we do, and that's really exciting to make sure that every time that you come to our restaurant, it is a moment in time where we're able to tell a story of that time, but a story of the whole picture of what the pine is, what creativity is, and what is Ontario ingredients. Just rambling right now, but it's just exciting to always think about that. Yeah. And I get a lot of diners find I would think that a lot of diners don't think like that, and it's hard to be able to communicate that politely without telling you, no.
Jeremiah Tomas:You're not gonna get tomatoes in February, fresh tomatoes in February. No. You're here to experience the abundance of the land in the winter. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremiah Tomas:Rambling. Do you think
Alex Abbott Boyd:and this is a closing question. You think you'll always be excited about that? Do think it'll ever get old, or you think always telling that story of what's happening in Ontario right now is
Jeremiah Tomas:Always going to be excited. Oh my goodness. This is going around the world and seeing how other restaurants treat their own produce, there is no reason why we can't do that here. It just will need some time and emerging talent. But you go around not to take away from places around the world, but they're they just have a hundred plus more years over us.
Jeremiah Tomas:And Yeah. That's it. You see a lot of history in a lot of places around the world, and you're like, even in terms of wine. We'll get there.
Alex Abbott Boyd:There's a few conversations I've had lately where, I don't know, this focus on the challenges. So hard to get great people. Yeah. Costs are going up. Yeah.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Great meals are getting too expensive to be sustainable are all things that I've been hearing. So it's just nice to hear this more exciting perspective. Yeah. Yeah. And you
Jeremiah Tomas:know what? We have a little bit of a luxury in that is two sided because we don't have truffles from Alba. We don't have white truffles. We don't have imported Hokkaido scallops. We don't have uni.
Jeremiah Tomas:We don't have a five. So with that being said, we can't charge $600 for a tasting menu per person, which does excite a lot of people. Yeah. A lot of people don't wanna pay that right now, and I get it. I don't wanna pay that right now either for a tasting menu that's going to be like that.
Jeremiah Tomas:So we'll never be like that. We have the ingredients that we have at the cost that we can and prices that we can provide because these ingredients are sourced here. That was not a tariff response to the political climate that we are in. We're just this is what the ethos has always been, and I guess that comes into our advantage because we'll always be a tasting menu that is, and I say this politely, accessible. Obviously, it's still fine dining.
Jeremiah Tomas:It's not always the most accessible to everyone, and I get that. I don't spend money sparingly like that. It's great to be a special occasion restaurant where people will come once a year and they celebrate something special and spend their hard earned money doing that. So we get a little bit of an advantage there. And it's also very nice to be in the space where we're at because we don't have very much volume.
Jeremiah Tomas:It's a little bit exclusive. So you have limited space, which means that for our business, we will never think about having a restaurant that's a 100 seats because that's just not who we are, and it's not always about getting in the biggest amount of revenue or profit. Obviously, that's still really important to us, but it's the long game. Yeah. It's to make sure that within the space of fine dining, we become an institution that is a place where people recognize that, okay, The Pine is a spokes person, spokes restaurant for Ontario cuisine.
Jeremiah Tomas:And that is what it was like when I worked at Langdon Hall, that somewhat of a launching pad for a lot of chefs now around the world that have gone through that space. And we hope to aspire to be something like that where we're just renowned as a fine dining place where people can go to just to experience Ontario cuisine. So
Alex Abbott Boyd:That's incredibly exciting.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Always is. Always will be.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. Is there anything else you'd like to add?
Jeremiah Tomas:No. It's just really rewarding to be in the space where I'm at right now, where we are, rewarding to be a father, and rewarding to be able to do what I love to do with the balance appropriate to do.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. It's a special and rare thing, especially in hospitality.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. I think that a lot of people I think that a lot of people think that's not achievable. I disagree wholeheartedly. You just have to work towards that, set boundaries. Why can't you have an appropriate work life balance in this industry?
Jeremiah Tomas:Obviously, there are places and circumstances that won't allow you to do that, but I think it's completely possible to do this and do it at a high level. And I think that this industry already over the last five years has allowed for that to be one of the more focal aspects of kind of hiring people and career trajectory for people that be in this industry and have a little bit of balance. Because it's it was never like this, and it's just getting better. Yeah. So I I think that people entering into this industry now are much more privileged to be here, and it's just a better space.
Jeremiah Tomas:It's more acceptable to the balance of work and life and way more conducive to have a family now than it was, what, ten, twelve, fifteen years ago where no chance.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. No. If you've gotta be out of the home every evening, that's that's tough.
Jeremiah Tomas:We've chosen to only work three days just so that everyone has the amount of time that they can with their families, but also the energy to come back to work Yeah. And combat it full force and just to be able to do it properly with a mind that's not shrouded or tired.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. That's a key detail. That's a I'm glad you mentioned that. It it helps everything make a bit more sense. Yeah.
Jeremiah Tomas:And, also, the way that my bosses, Jeremy and Cassie, have allowed for it to work also financially for people. I won't get into that, but I think it's really important to have employers like that that can do that balance and also recognize that, yeah, it's expensive to live, but it's also
Alex Abbott Boyd:very healthy to have a balance too. I know of in more corporate context places that will tell women you can take three months, six months, whatever it is. But then if every single man shows up the week after, have they really set that example? Can the women really take that time?
Jeremiah Tomas:No. No. Yeah. Of course not. No.
Jeremiah Tomas:I've oh, man. And it's fun learning that, like, minute by minute. No. You need to be home. You need to be able to support your wife.
Jeremiah Tomas:You need to be sport supportive to the women, and it's like there's there's so much going on there. And if I I can't imagine having to go right back to work and Oh, it's crazy. It's so common. So You're like, yikes. How is any of this going to work if we all have to jump in and yeah.
Jeremiah Tomas:It's it's quite I'm very privileged to be where I'm at, and I don't take any of it for granted because I recognize that this is not the reality. I'm just in a position where I'm able to share that this can be a reality. It's not always the case everywhere, and that kinda sucks. Yeah. Oh, it sucks a lot because you have a kid too.
Alex Abbott Boyd:You I do. And part of the reason I started my own business was so that I would be in full control. Yeah. I paused it Yeah. Mostly.
Alex Abbott Boyd:And if we have another kid, I will pause it entirely for three months. You know? I just wanted to make sure that I could do that.
Jeremiah Tomas:Think I that's so cool. And I think that's something that we have actually been getting better in this industry to accept. It I just hope it gets more attention as something that is not just this this is the restaurant industry. It should always be a certain way. Like, there should be more municipal government funding that helps out that way.
Jeremiah Tomas:But as it is, I think we're getting we're in the right direction, I hope. I could be
Alex Abbott Boyd:ignorant. It's especially good. I can pause my business. No one's gonna fire me, but I also won't make much money. It's Yay.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. Yeah. It's it's great for people that work in a place like the Pine that they can still have the money to support the family and have the time.
Jeremiah Tomas:Yeah. I think that's just I don't know why that never was the case, but now stepping into parenthood, you're like, oh my goodness. This is a whole different ballgame. And then you're not just managing a child. You're trying to manage finances in that way when it's like
Alex Abbott Boyd:Yeah. They cost so much money to pay. Diapers.
Jeremiah Tomas:Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome.
Jeremiah Tomas:Thank you so much for your time. Pleasure. Thank you. Thank you.
Alex Abbott Boyd:Thank you so much for listening. Until next time, cheers.
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